Bridge hand question question
#2
Posted 2009-December-30, 11:28
Don't like 1N, but some would make the call.
If they bid spades I can usually double later and if they land in another suit I'm happy to defend.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#3
Posted 2009-December-30, 11:40
1. Pass and hope to be able to enter the auction later....typically you are hoping to hear LHO bid 1♠ and RHO to bid either 2♠ or 1N: in either case, you double, showing the other suits and (especially over 1N) diamonds. problem: any time you delay your entry, you allow the opps to exchange more info, thus they go 'right' more often than over an immediate entry, and, especially if they bid and raise spades, you are forcing to the 3-level.
2. 1N: right on everything but spade length. Unfortunately, this is a potentially huge issue, since partner will/should transfer you to spades with almost any 5 card holding and your hand will disappoint...plus other potential issues, such as partner doubling a spade bid by LHO counting on you holding at least xx, or the opps running spades on you, and so on. The 'good news' is that it gets you into the auction quickly...the bad news is that you may not belong in the auction.
3. 1♥: whether this is palatable depends in part on style and in part on spots in the suit...if I held KJ98, I'd certainly bid 1♥. It has the advantage of getting into the auction, and doesn't deny this kind of strength....it may allow us to find a good fit....and we have relatively easy rebids over most calls partner may make.
Whether one would want to bid with KJxx is a matter of taste.
I'm not entirely sure which I prefer, knowing as I do the result of one of the actions, but I would in any event rank 1N as the least attractive....I'm pretty sure I'd bid 1♥ rather than pass, since I really don't like the idea of having to double 2♠.
#4
Posted 2009-December-30, 11:42
#5
Posted 2009-December-30, 11:58
DG15, on Dec 30 2009, 12:21 PM, said:
I overcalled 1NT
which ended the auction. Was my bid correct?
I went 3 down
Calls are never really "correct" or "incorrect" they are either percentage or antipercentage because in bridge the "wrong" call is sometimes rewarded and the "right" call is sometimes punished. Back to your 1NT call; it is within the normal overcall range for a direct seat 1NT but IMO the singleton ♠ makes it an anti%age call I would either pass or bid 1♥ with a preference for the latter.
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
#6
Posted 2009-December-30, 16:43
#7
Posted 2009-December-30, 18:55
nigel_k, on Dec 30 2009, 05:43 PM, said:
The problem with pass is that partner will have what he usually holds when you pass (a flattish 10-12 count with too many diamonds to double, and not enough to bid 1N), and you'll collect 150 or 200 out of 1♦ when you're making game.
Axxx, AQx, J10x, xxx or similar for example
#8
Posted 2009-December-30, 18:59
Cyberyeti, on Dec 30 2009, 07:55 PM, said:
nigel_k, on Dec 30 2009, 05:43 PM, said:
The problem with pass is that partner will have what he usually holds when you pass (a flattish 10-12 count with too many diamonds to double, and not enough to bid 1N), and you'll collect 150 or 200 out of 1♦ when you're making game.
Axxx, AQx, J10x, xxx or similar for example
And why would partner pass out 1♦ with that hand? And is that really your biggest concern, that LHO has a yarbrough, RHO has a minimum, and partner has the most he is likely to have?
#9
Posted 2009-December-30, 22:33
#10
Posted 2009-December-31, 04:20
jdonn, on Dec 30 2009, 07:59 PM, said:
Cyberyeti, on Dec 30 2009, 07:55 PM, said:
nigel_k, on Dec 30 2009, 05:43 PM, said:
The problem with pass is that partner will have what he usually holds when you pass (a flattish 10-12 count with too many diamonds to double, and not enough to bid 1N), and you'll collect 150 or 200 out of 1♦ when you're making game.
Axxx, AQx, J10x, xxx or similar for example
And why would partner pass out 1♦ with that hand? And is that really your biggest concern, that LHO has a yarbrough, RHO has a minimum, and partner has the most he is likely to have?
Partner would pass with the hand I gave because he has the wrong shape for a takeout double, and no ruffs to take in a 4-3 heart fit where you're very likely to end up, and it's embarrassing to protect with 1N and have the opener cash 6 or 7 diamonds opposite partner's 4423 9 count. Pass is routine with that sort of hand.
11 opposite 2 is not that unlikely for the opponents.
I profit from people passing hands like the OP's all the time given some of the rubbish I open on. What are you going to do when the auction goes 1♦-P-2♦-P-P ? 4♥ could easily be on (as little as xxxxx, AQxx, x, xxx gives it play), but if you give him a chance, partner will bid spades, and possibly lots of them if you reopen.
I would overcall 1♥ and rebid 1N (15-18) over partner's expected spade. We WJO on bad hands so 1♥ over 1♦ is a reasonable hand (non exclusive overcall also so bad opening hand +) and will get a response almost all the time a 1♥ opening bid would have done.
#11
Posted 2009-December-31, 06:26
well, I think 1NT is ok, but I would not have choosen it.
The alternatives are X, 1H or Pass.
I think X is not an option, since you are dead, if p bids 1S or 2S,
after 1S, you still can pass, but after 2S you have trapped yourself.
1H is ok, it would be nice to know, if your suit would be something
like KJTx, in which case it may be best.
But you can always Pass, the "Wait and See" strategy is not the worst
strategy.
With kind regards
Marlowe
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#12
Posted 2009-December-31, 06:32
Cyberyeti, on Dec 30 2009, 07:55 PM, said:
nigel_k, on Dec 30 2009, 05:43 PM, said:
The problem with pass is that partner will have what he usually holds when you pass (a flattish 10-12 count with too many diamonds to double, and not enough to bid 1N), and you'll collect 150 or 200 out of 1♦ when you're making game.
Axxx, AQx, J10x, xxx or similar for example
Well, if partner is in 4th seat, he can make a 1NT overcall.
There are various styles out there, but a common one is, that a 1NT overcall
in 4th seat showes 11-14, and does not necessarily promise a stopper.
So the hand you gave is not an really good one, even if you pass, you have
lots of chance to survive and reach whatever game you may have.
And if you dont like 1NT, ... 1S is also not the worst bid partner can find in 4th
seat.
And by the way: If you reach every making game, I would like to play against
you, because I am sure I will win.
This is similar to the player, who never gets psyched playing Poker, sometimes
they get you, and to win in the long run, it is important to accept, that they get
you once in a while.
With kind regards
Marlowe
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#13
Posted 2009-December-31, 07:05
Cyberyeti, on Dec 31 2009, 11:20 AM, said:
I'd protect with 1NT on the hand you gave (Axxx, AQx, J10x, xxx). In the unlikely event that they have six or seven diamonds to cash, 1♦ is making, presumably. And partner may not pass 1NT anyway.
Quote
Really? It sounds pretty unlikely to me.
Quote
I'd bid 2♥, showing a reasonable hand with only four hearts, unsuitable for a takeout double on the previous round. My likely shapes are this one, and x4x5. Whilst I'm quite strong for this action, I don't think I'll miss many games this way. I'd certainly expect partner to raise with xxxxx AQxx x xxx.
#14
Posted 2009-December-31, 10:16
#15
Posted 2009-December-31, 10:57
Occasionally going 3 down is not a disaster, at least it proves that you are trying.
The big disasters are 1NT+3 and 3♥+2 etc
Dont worry about it
Tony
Edit:
I found the hand and noticed that your opponents had an easy vulnerable game
One table even scored 1480 in 4♠xx+1
You were very unlucky to find your partner with nothing useful
#16
Posted 2009-December-31, 12:17
Cyberyeti, on Dec 31 2009, 05:20 AM, said:
jdonn, on Dec 30 2009, 07:59 PM, said:
Cyberyeti, on Dec 30 2009, 07:55 PM, said:
nigel_k, on Dec 30 2009, 05:43 PM, said:
The problem with pass is that partner will have what he usually holds when you pass (a flattish 10-12 count with too many diamonds to double, and not enough to bid 1N), and you'll collect 150 or 200 out of 1♦ when you're making game.
Axxx, AQx, J10x, xxx or similar for example
And why would partner pass out 1♦ with that hand? And is that really your biggest concern, that LHO has a yarbrough, RHO has a minimum, and partner has the most he is likely to have?
Partner would pass with the hand I gave because he has the wrong shape for a takeout double, and no ruffs to take in a 4-3 heart fit where you're very likely to end up, and it's embarrassing to protect with 1N and have the opener cash 6 or 7 diamonds opposite partner's 4423 9 count. Pass is routine with that sort of hand.
11 opposite 2 is not that unlikely for the opponents.
I profit from people passing hands like the OP's all the time given some of the rubbish I open on. What are you going to do when the auction goes 1♦-P-2♦-P-P ? 4♥ could easily be on (as little as xxxxx, AQxx, x, xxx gives it play), but if you give him a chance, partner will bid spades, and possibly lots of them if you reopen.
I would overcall 1♥ and rebid 1N (15-18) over partner's expected spade. We WJO on bad hands so 1♥ over 1♦ is a reasonable hand (non exclusive overcall also so bad opening hand +) and will get a response almost all the time a 1♥ opening bid would have done.
While I am an advocate of 1♥, your post almost makes me change my mind
I found your statement that 11 v 2 for the opponents would not be unusual questionable, so I ran a simulation of 200 hands, using 11-21 for opener, not a balanced 15-17, and no 5 card majors, with diamonds always equal to or longer than clubs.
There were 19 hands on which responder held 0, 1 or 2 hcp...on none of them was opener an 11 count.
I was cautious in assessing partner's tendency to reopen...when in doubt, I made him pass. There were 5 hands out of 200 on which the auction would, I think, die in 1♦ and we missed a game once.
There were 19 hands on which responder held a 3 count, and opener held 11 twice...but partner had a balance. Only on 3 of the 19 did it appear that 1♦ would be the final contract, and we did not seem to have missed a game. I didn't check to see how partials played...even tho it is a quiet Decemeber 31, I only have so much time to waste
BTW, postulating that 4th chair may have Axxx AQx J10x xxx (nice touch...that diamond 10) and pass...rather than 1N or double...either of which would attract significant expert support imo... is very disingenuous. We can all come up with hands to justify any call we make in any auction....but the point is to assess frequency and size of gain/loss on the range of forseeable hands, rather than to identify particular holdings, and particular actions with those holdings, that will lead to loss.
I still prefer 1♥...but not for the reasons you gave. My concern is that I'd rather get in now than have to bid later...or have to pass later...but I do so recognizing that this action will prove inferior to pass then (maybe) double on many hands.
#17
Posted 2009-December-31, 12:28
1N was unfortunate, but many of us will be taking a nice hot bath at the three level if we pass, our RHO raises to 2♠, we now double and our LHO decides to go headhunting.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#18
Posted 2009-December-31, 13:00
Phil, on Dec 31 2009, 01:28 PM, said:
1N was unfortunate, but many of us will be taking a nice hot bath at the three level if we pass, our RHO raises to 2♠, we now double and our LHO decides to go headhunting.
Ha! A triumph for the 1♥ overcall!
I knew it! This hand is conclusive evidence!
#19
Posted 2009-December-31, 13:12
mikeh, on Dec 31 2009, 02:00 PM, said:
Phil, on Dec 31 2009, 01:28 PM, said:
1N was unfortunate, but many of us will be taking a nice hot bath at the three level if we pass, our RHO raises to 2♠, we now double and our LHO decides to go headhunting.
Ha! A triumph for the 1♥ overcall!
I knew it! This hand is conclusive evidence!
Well broken-even
#20
Posted 2009-December-31, 14:04
jdonn, on Dec 31 2009, 08:12 PM, said:
Probably. After
1♦ pass 1♠ pass
2♠ dbl
RHO will probably just bid 4♠. If, on the other hand, he decides to redouble, we're in a certain amount of difficulty.
I overcalled 1NT
which ended the auction. Was my bid correct?
I went 3 down