[Echognome]

Scoring: IMP

(2♥) - ?

---

RHO opens a weak 2 hearts. Do you obey the adage and offer up a green card or do you introduce your spade suit? If so, at what level?

[Winstonm]

Pass.

Sometimes you simply don't have a bid. Anything I bid distorts my hand and surely this auction won't die; when I later introduce the spades partner will have a better picture of my hand.

WinstonM

[hrothgar]

Winstonm, on Jun 21 2005, 04:14 AM, said:

Pass.

Sometimes you simply don't have a bid. Anything I bid distorts my hand and surely this auction won't die; when I later introduce the spades partner will have a better picture of my hand.

WinstonM

2♠. The hand has enormous playing strength
If I pass I'll NEVER hear the end of it...

[nickf]

This is not a tough decision.

You have a 7-4 with a good main suit.

What are you waiting for? To balance after LHO raises to 4H passed back to you?

nickf
sydney

[flytoox]

hrothgar, on Jun 21 2005, 01:18 AM, said:

Winstonm, on Jun 21 2005, 04:14 AM, said:

Pass.

Sometimes you simply don't have a bid.  Anything I bid distorts my hand and surely this auction won't die; when I later introduce the spades partner will have a better picture of my hand.

WinstonM

2♠. The hand has enormous playing strength
If I pass I'll NEVER hear the end of it...

completely agree.

[mr1303]

Yep, 2S looks mandetory. I'll pull partners first penalty double to spades at the cheapest level, showing a hand that is offensive only. After that I'll respect his decision

[Echognome]

mr1303, on Jun 21 2005, 11:25 AM, said:

Yep, 2S looks mandetory. I'll pull partners first penalty double to spades at the cheapest level, showing a hand that is offensive only. After that I'll respect his decision

Scoring: IMP

---

Good premonition there Mark.

(2♥) - 2♠ - (3♦) - X
(P) - 3♠ - (4♣) - X
(4♦) - P - (P) - X
All Pass

Spade was lead, Ace taken. 3 rounds of clubs (pitching spades), then club ruff and heart back. Couldn't touch it on defense. I was a bit unhappy that partner continued to double at teams when I warned that I had no defense. He was unhappy that I didn't bid 3♠ preemptive. I hadn't thought about it, but wondered if that made more sense. Hence posed it here.

By the way, I think West found about as good a dummy as she could have hoped for given the bidding! Whenever I do that I get wasted values and a threadbare dummy.

[joker_gib]

Jlall, on Jun 21 2005, 03:50 AM, said:

pass. will have a chance later (presumably)

Pass too !

Sorry but I don't see the enormous playing stength with 7 direct losers ! (even if it is 7-4)

This hand is a preempt and will lead partner to error if I take action now.

Alain

[hrothgar]

Echognome, on Jun 21 2005, 02:06 PM, said:

He was unhappy that I didn't bid 3♠ preemptive. I hadn't thought about it, but wondered if that made more sense.

3♠ is traditionally used as a STRONG jump overcall
The bid is not preemptive without special agreement

[helene_t]

Terminology issue: you can't preempt a preempt. This is because RHO's hand is well described so the opps don't don't care if you take away bidding space.

This is true even 3♠ is agreed as weaker than 2♠ (which would be an odd agreement, btw).

[Fluffy]

Bidding is ridicoulous on my partnership, and if I bid I would had scored -800 instead of -510.

Pre vs pre simply has no point, they have come by themselves to an inaccurate position, why should you get their trouble into your partnership?

[Echognome]

If I switch the West and North hands, opponents should bid to 4♥ and we should be in 4♠. How are we to get there after (2♥) - P - (4♥) - P - (P) - ?

Am I to stick my neck on the block now and bid 4♠? Yes I know they have a fit, but my LHO can just be bidding 4♥ on high card strength. If 3NT comes back around to me, am I bidding now?

I agree that there is considerable risk in bidding, but there is also risk in passing. Simon always talks about making the bid "of lesser risk." So saying it's always right to do one thing or another is just not true. We ask these questions to find out what's best on average.

[joker_gib]

The only acceptable bid in my partnership regarding those kind of hands is 4♠ because 2 and 3♠ show stonger hands !

But this time I'm a bit too weak to go with 4♠ vulnerable.

I will decide what to do when it will be back in 4♥ if partner has passed but the vulnerability does not encourage any action.

Sometimes prempts work !!

Alain

[MickyB]

Echognome, on Jun 21 2005, 04:16 PM, said:

If I switch the West and North hands, opponents should bid to 4♥ and we should be in 4♠. How are we to get there after (2♥) - P - (4♥) - P - (P) - ?

Am I to stick my neck on the block now and bid 4♠?

Passing then bidding 4♠ isn't any more dangerous than bidding 4♠ straight away, there's still only one hand trying to make the decision, and if they use a forcing enquiry of some sort then you can get a 3♠ bid in. The auction I fear is 2♥-P-P-P, particularly as my preference is not to reduce requirements greatly for balancing actions over preempts. I would have bid it the same way you did, and I disagree with your pards 2nd double - he shouldn't be expecting both hearts to cash on this auction.

[SoTired]

pass, and only yourself to blame for the poor result. This is one reason why you pass these hands, because bridge is a partnership game. Partner expects you to have values for your 2S bid, not a preempt.

You can't have it both ways. What do you do with AKxxx xx xx AKxx? over 2H. You bid 2S.

Similar situation to RHO opens 1H and you hold x AQJ10xxx xx xxx, what do you bid? You PASS, because dbl is a takeout dbl not a penalty dbl. Can't have it both ways.

3S is an stronger hand than 2S and 4S is even stronger.

3S might be AKQxxx x xx AKxx and 4S might be AKQJxxx x xx AKx

South has 7hcp and rho has maybe 8. that is 15, so other 2 have 25. Somebody is bidding. And even if it went all pass, you aren't missing anything.

If it went 2H p 4H p p, now you can bid 4S and partner will know EXACTLY what you have.

After 2H 4S p, with x AKxx Axxx Jxxx, I would expect North to bid 6S, or at least q-bid 5D.

[mike777]

SoTired, on Jun 21 2005, 11:32 AM, said:

pass, and only yourself to blame for the poor result. This is one reason why you pass these hands, because bridge is a partnership game. Partner expects you to have values for your 2S bid, not a preempt.

You can't have it both ways. What do you do with AKxxx xx xx AKxx? over 2H. You bid 2S.

Similar situation to RHO opens 1H and you hold x AQJ10xxx xx xxx, what do you bid? You PASS, because dbl is a takeout dbl not a penalty dbl. Can't have it both ways.

3S is an stronger hand than 2S and 4S is even stronger.

3S might be AKQxxx x xx AKxx and 4S might be AKQJxxx x xx AKx

South has 7hcp and rho has maybe 8. that is 15, so other 2 have 25. Somebody is bidding. And even if it went all pass, you aren't missing anything.

If it went 2H p 4H p p, now you can bid 4S and partner will know EXACTLY what you have.

After 2H 4S p, with x AKxx Axxx Jxxx, I would expect North to bid 6S, or at least q-bid 5D.

Well said So Tired and welcome to the forum.

Not sure If I am brave enough to bid 4spades vul vs nv but.....agree with your point.

Great old Kinks song, I'm So Tired of waiting for youuuuuuu, for yoouuuuuuuuu.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I would pass, but Marshall Miles, a bigger authority than me,
recommends 2S, saying, that the playing power is sufficient
enough.
I normally follow his advice, but sometimes, it is hard to change
habit.

Marlowe

[Blofeld]

Quote

You can't have it both ways. What do you do with AKxxx xx xx AKxx? over 2H. You bid 2S.

But you wouldn't pull 3♦X to 3♠ on that hand.

I'm not sure whether I'd bid 2♠ or not - I don't like either action! Certainly if I didn't and 4♥ was bid on my left passed back to me I'd venture 4♠, and I think if I do bid 2♠ then the continuations you made are reasonable.

Edit: to be fair at the table I'd have a hard time not bidding 2♠ with a hand as good as this.