[cherdanno]

Fluffy, on Jul 27 2009, 04:01 PM, said:

I miss han so much, and will miss josh, Frances isn't posting nearly as much, and some others seem to be gone as well.

You haven't been posting much either!

[the hog]

I miss Nuno. He has a good bullshit detector.

[matmat]

i miss scarecrow, most of all...

[655321]

Phil, on Jul 27 2009, 12:14 PM, said:

Is it me, or has the quality of the posts rapidly gone downhill in the past few weeks?

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I feel like a lot of the new posters can't play bridge to save their life.

If this is going to be a legitimate site to post and discuss hands, the quality needs to improve. Maybe its never been as good as it should be, but right now it really sucks.

Maybe the problem is that some good players post less, rather than bad players posting more. Hopefully Jdonn changes his mind (when he gets to work in the morning and thinks of the long dreary day ahead with no BBF... ), it would be great to see Han post again, and with luck Jlall will continue to post. Gnasher has not posted in the past week, when he has finished playing in the Spingold I hope he comes back. Those four are probably my favorite posters.

[Jlall]

655321, on Jul 28 2009, 03:23 AM, said:

Phil, on Jul 27 2009, 12:14 PM, said:

Is it me, or has the quality of the posts rapidly gone downhill in the past few weeks?

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I feel like a lot of the new posters can't play bridge to save their life.

If this is going to be a legitimate site to post and discuss hands, the quality needs to improve. Maybe its never been as good as it should be, but right now it really sucks.

Maybe the problem is that some good players post less, rather than bad players posting more. Hopefully Jdonn changes his mind (when he gets to work in the morning and thinks of the long dreary day ahead with no BBF... ), it would be great to see Han post again, and with luck Jlall will continue to post. Gnasher has not posted in the past week, when he has finished playing in the Spingold I hope he comes back. Those four are probably my favorite posters.

lol I don't think I've posted "for real" in a long time. Maybe I'll start again some time though.

[Free]

I have the impression that the atmosphere has turned very hostile in the last couple of years. Whenever someone writes something semi-stupid, controversial, or just hasn't got the newest bidding style, he gets shot down immediately.

A perfect example is the endless discussions/games between jdonn and cascade.

I like Justin's new approach (not the old one): a simple short LOL carries the message or he just ignores the post. Both approaches don't make a thread go completely off topic and nobody gets insulted.

[hotShot]

I've been around almost as long as Free and I share the impression that the tone has gotten harsher over the years. Among the 100 members with the most posts there are some, that have been mobbed away.

We've lost high quality posters before, and I guess it's perfectly normal to have active and less active phases here in the forum.
I can even understand that one does not what to comment on topics that boil up over and over again. How many "bbo and rating system" threads did we have this year?

We have 7216 members in the forum, but we don't know how many of them actually posted this month or this year. I think the number or active posters this month is less than 100.

[Codo]

I do not share Phils view.

Besides the named ones, we have a lot more internationalists who spread their wisdom, just think of Fred, Skaeran, MFA and Ulven and others who deserves mentioning.

But I agree with Frederic, the tone did change and not to the best.

But there is no need to complain. If Phil dislikes the quality, he cannot change it.
If I do not like the tone, I cannot change it.

We just can ignore the posts we dislike and if we feal that there is too much to ignore, we must quit.

[Fluffy]

Free, on Jul 28 2009, 09:38 AM, said:

I have the impression that the atmosphere has turned very hostile in the last couple of years. Whenever someone writes something semi-stupid, controversial, or just hasn't got the newest bidding style, he gets shot down immediately.

A perfect example is the endless discussions/games between jdonn and cascade.

I like Justin's new approach (not the old one): a simple short LOL carries the message or he just ignores the post. Both approaches don't make a thread go completely off topic and nobody gets insulted.

You are also one of the people who are missed of course.

I disagree with that LOL thing, I know that several people felt insulted when people laughed at their posts. It is totally true that some posts at the advanced/expert forum didn't belong to what experts expected to read there, but sadly it also reads advanced!.

A third category of posts in the middle of BIL and A/E might be right, or maybe getting rid of the Advanced category and letting people who feel their problems are not BIL post on general bridge or interesting bridge hands.


I also went a bit mad on jdonn when he first came to the forums, but upon realicing that he was just joking everytime and not being really harsh I finnished enjoying his posts.

[Fluffy]

cherdanno, on Jul 28 2009, 06:15 AM, said:

Fluffy, on Jul 27 2009, 04:01 PM, said:

I miss han so much, and will miss josh, Frances isn't posting nearly as much, and some others seem to be gone as well.

You haven't been posting much either!

More than you!. .

Seriously I don't feel very expert these days, maybe its the heat, but I posted a couple of times and when I came back the next day and reread my post I felt so embarrashed that I wanted to edit my words.

[NickRW]

It is in the nature of forums in general that posters, good and bad, come and go.

Some threads get unnecessarily personal. The best threads confine themselves to the actual bridge issues. Posts from less well informed people may not be too helpful to the more advanced poster/reader, but are, it should not be forgotten, potentially very valuable to the less well informed readers - provided that their arguments are taken apart constructively - not with a "you #!$%@hole". I suppose this can get tedious if it is the tenth time you've had to do it!

Nick

[inquiry]

I am sorry if the tone has become more hostile of late. I don't actually feel that it has, other than the fact that the water cooler forum allows more rock-em sock-em discussions. There is often stuff in there I would moderate, but fortunately that forum is not under my control or moderation.

Perhaps it is that we allow disagreement when it attacks the ideas in a post, and not poster. A lot of the regulars have become good at figuring out how to do this on the edge of the rules. Most people take this kind of comment ok, others do not.

For instance, I have been asked upon occassion to delete post with a reply of just one word... lol. The reason I do not, is this expresses a view about the content of the post rather than the poster. There is no doubt that I should have delete Cascade's characterization of jdonn's post as being full of "scoffing and sarcasm." The reason I haven't is I didn't see it until just now, and it has been here long enough so that all the regulars have read it. It is getting difficult to moderate so many forums. On the plus side, I haven't heard much out cry about "censorship" in the last few years. My recollection is there was some discussion of it (or in that case lack of it) in the post about how evil one line post are (argument we should delete teh lol response only threads), there was another one about censorship in the gaming site when some was banned for inappropriate language at a table in Febuary. The last really difficult discussion on censorship was after Uday removed a thread and started a discussion on "standards" in the BBF, that was way back in March 2008 (search Standards author Uday if you want to find that thread).

Maybe we allow too much. Maybe I should zap Cascade's post and all replies in this thread. But maybe, the community censoring is better -- if it doesn't get out of hand -- like jlall's response to it. BTW, we still do edit and we still do remove post, as needed. I get about one complaint a week on average about something being inappropriate and the majority of these complaints have merit.

[Phil]

In an ideal world, we'd have 20 or 30 world class players that are currently in the Spingold (or the Wagar, or the Senior Swiss), gathering tons of hands and posting next week after DC wraps up. The same will be true after Brazil next month. I do expect Han, Cherdano and Sathya (sorry if I missed anyone) to post some hands. I would also hope Ulf and Fred do the same.

The growth of BBO has been very steep over the last few years. I am hard pressed to think of very many top-level players that I have NOT seen at one time or another on BBO. So why hasn't BBF kept up? I'm at a loss. I do think one of the reasons is the unregulated nature of the A/E section. Many of the problems are not suitable, and you have everyone and their dog bringing in their 'me too' opinions. Justin had some great suggestions. Why weren't these followed-up on? If I were a new, advancing player, but I didn't know Codo from Harluk from Phil from Han from Mike777, I would not have a clue what to take from these discussions.

I know, for a fact, that many good players email problems back and forth, and there is no reason why this couldn't occur on BBF.

I kind of miss the good old days. While I have lost some sleep in the past going toe-to-toe with Justin on some of the more controversial hands over the years, I honestly believe that spirited debate, even if it gets a little nasty at times, is the way that all of us get better.

[jillybean]

[y66]

Personally, I like the idea that people come and go. I'll miss jdonn's posts (and occasional sarcasm) a lot and I hate to see good players like mikeh, franceshinden, han, gerben, cherdanno, gnasher, dburn, fred and many others posting less frequently.

After reading jdonn's 10000th post recently, I started reading through some of his older posts, and others'. There sure is a lot of good stuff there, as vin1990 points out, and I don't think, for as long as I play bridge, I'll get tired of reading it. Wouldn't mind if an entrepreneurial forum mate with some editing ability* made it easier to find the better stuff but stumbling on something good has its own rewards. That old thread gwnn recently re-posted re:

1♦-(3♣)-X-(P)
3♠-(P)-4♥

was a classic and hard to beat for entertainment and bridge wisdom, imo.

So, yeah, thank you and farewell to those of you who have contributed so much and have decided to move on. And welcome to new posters. Maybe some of you will take up the slack. I'm sure you will. No pressure!

* Where have you gone Chamaco?

[peachy]

y66, on Jul 28 2009, 11:14 AM, said:

I'll miss jdonn's posts (and occasional sarcasm) a lot

Has he announced he is no longer going to participate? If so, it will be a loss to these forums.

[y66]

I think so yeah. He recently said goodbye in a post in the water cooler.

First Farrah then Michael then jdonn. It's been a tough summer.

[Free]

I miss Luis and Misho. Those were the good old days

[skjaeran]

I'll definitely miss Josh's posts if he doesn't return. There's a lot to learn from him. I also miss Justin's serious posting. And I really hope Mike won't stay away for too long. I'd like to see Han returning too - I like his kind of jokes. I'm sure Fred and Ulf will continue posting occasionally - good to see them around.

We have to live with people posting in the A/E forum things that really don't belong there - according to the WC posters and real experts.

[jillybean]

removed, forums is what it is.