[precpj]

Playing with a first time pick up partern. the bidding went P P 1D

Me, holding ♠AT63 ♥AK72♦632♣AK

at the table I X for takeout ( a normal bid) Pass after me and partner bid 1H

your ribid ?

ie P P 1D X (me)
P 1H P ?

At the table I raised the partner to 2H knowing the partner has a max of 8 points and cud also be 3 hearts no points When I tabled down my hand i whisperd down on chat " I think 2D is more correct bid ..." partner(host) corrected me " both were incorrect " "may I share? " "3H" from the host and one oppo. " hmm 3H cud be too high if you have a very poor hand." me responded and promised to post the hand here for discussion.

how would yo rebid with this hand and why ?

many thanks

Precpj

[Phil]

I would just raise to 2♥. You have a nice hand but the ♦xxx is particularly troubling.

[655321]

I am a 3♥ bidder.

2♦ would be the bid on this hand if you only had 3 hearts.
I would bid 2♥ on many minimums with 4 hearts, so for me AKAKA is way too strong.

[JLOL]

3H fo sho

[precpj]

I have asked many Stars on this bidding excuse me for holding off their calls for now.

Life is a never ending process inlcuding at the birdge table !!

Precpj

[the hog]

2H is enough. You have a very nice hand in Aces and kings , but partner could be broke, and your distriution is nothing out of the ordinary. 2D is wrong, as pointed out above, and 3H is an overbid, unless you routinely appear to raise with 4 card support and a minimum X - not a policy I like or suggest.

As an aside, wasn't "Ur" an ancient city in Mesopotamia? I didn't even know they played bridge in those times.

[hanp]

I bid 2H with a sound double and 4-card support, so it is not enough.

[kenrexford]

Partner has values. If he was a complete bust, RHO or LHO would do something more than has happened so far. So, bid where you live. 3♥.

2♥ is right on shape. If you changed the A-K of clubs to the 3-2, that's a 2♥ hand.

[the hog]

kenrexford, on Jun 1 2009, 10:24 AM, said:

Partner has values.  If he was a complete bust, RHO or LHO would do something more than has happened so far.  So, bid where you live.  3♥.

2♥ is right on shape.  If you changed the A-K of clubs to the 3-2, that's a 2♥ hand.

So you would raise to 2H on
♠AT63 ♥AK72♦632♣32

Nice when partner has xxx xxx xxxx xxx
You can change a couple of xs to a couple of Qs and Js.

Partner has values? He hasn't shown them.

[hanp]

If we bid every hand assuming that partner has xxx xxx xxxx xxx then we will miss a lot of games.

That having said, I would not bid 2H holding A10xx AKxx xxx xx, but I certainly would holding A10xx AKxx xxx Kx or A10xx AKxx x Jxxx.

[mtvesuvius]

Pirate?


Anyway, I'll bid 2♥ I guess.

[jdonn]

I think rebidding after a takeout double is probably the area of bidding that has changed the most in the relatively short time since I learned to play bridge. I first learned raising shows significant extras (this hand), raising to 3 shows very significant extras, and cuebidding showed something like the equivalent of a 2♣ opener and tended to deny direct support for partner (since if you had it you could just raise). But now that people want to raise with less and less, the double raise is much lighter, and the cuebid is often made on a wide variety of hands with a lot less extra values than I first learned were needed, and may or may not have support.

I'm trying to keep up. I think 2♥ was right 10 or 15 years ago and 3♥ is right (meaning expected by an expert across from you) today. But this is one of the only areas in which I consider myself old fashioned, and I would really prefer to be able to just bid 2♥ on this. I don't want to go down in 3♥ sometimes just for the joy of raising without any real extras when the opponents aren't even fighting for the hand yet.

[whereagles]

The_Hog, on Jun 1 2009, 02:15 AM, said:

As an aside, wasn't "Ur" an ancient city in Mesopotamia? I didn't even know they played bridge in those times.

It was, and they did play bridge there, although they would bid 3♥ with the original hand

[mich-b]

I think that 2♥ here should show significant extras, and real hope of making game if the 1♥ bidder is close to maximum. This would of course be different if RHO had competed rather than passed.

Do all the people that bid 3♥ here , play that opposite a 2♥ raise the 1♥ bidder just passes with any hand?

[skjaeran]

I'm used to raising with a sound opening here.
This hand is stronger than that.
♦xxx is a devaluing factor, but I'll still raise to 3♥.

[precpj]

Here are the responses when I posed this to Stars " Hi may I please ask how u would rebid after making a takeout X as the bidding went P P 1D X P 1H P (?)Your hand is : ATXX AKXX XXX AK " and more than a dozen of them came back with their help gracefully.

The major majority of them voiced 2H along with their remarks:

"2H; 2h shows a big hand "
"1H could be a forced 3 cards preference with busted hand "
"I can not argue agaisnt 3H "

when I asked one 2H replier " how do u score the answers 2D 2H or 3H " "3H is worst .." He did like the 2D suggestion I meant to ask how they will score as in "It is your call" in the ACBL Bulletine

2 ( out of north america) came in with 3H and one from Far East with 4H ( i wonder if the star follow the sequence I posed.

it is very fun to collect 3 2D replies from them ; one of the 3 came in 2H first and changed to 2D while i was expressing my gratitude. the most interesting one is the turkish star who shared his trend of thoughts

" i bid 2d and bid game if my partner rebid is other than 2H; on 2h rebid i push on with 3H " a great process of communication

well it is time to reveal the hand of the 1H bidder

♠XX ♥QJ654♦54 ♣QJ94 a perfect bingo

I have invited the Host ( expert rated) who was about to boot me at the table ( 2D and 2H were 100 % incorrect in his view ) and the oppo who politely voiced his 3H choice to read or join the discussion here. After all , I would like to remind them again Life is a never ending process

Precpj

[hanp]

Asking random stars is pointless.

[ArtK78]

IMO, the old fashioned standard call on this hand is 2♥, with the knowledge that it is a little heavy.

As Josh stated, the modern trend is to raise more often on moderate takeout doubles which means that the lower limit of the raise to 2♥ has gone down from about 16 HCP to a good 13 or 14. That would make this a 3♥ call.

It is also my experience that the modern trend is that responder doesn't start jumping around just because he has an 8 count. He needs either a better hand or a long suit to justify a jump response to a takeout double.

I have an agreement with several of my regular partners that the takeout doubler is obligated to raise if he has 4 card support. If one has normal takeout double values but only 3 card support, one passes. If one holds the "old-fashioned" raise to 2♥ (16-18 HCP) one must raise to 3♥. A cue bid followed by a raise is still stronger. A leap to 4♥ is based on distribution as well as power. A pure power raise to game - the old fashioned game forcing direct cue bid - is a cue bid followed by a game bid.

A cue bid by the takeout doubler does not promise (or deny) support, so the option of a cue bid and passing a 2♥ rebid exists but has no special meaning.

[hanp]

I would bid 2H on some 16-counts. That's about borderline for me.

[whereagles]

precpj, on Jun 1 2009, 02:21 PM, said:

Life is a never ending process

No, sorry. Life IS an ending process