[Echognome]

I appreciate Hanoi's thread and poll. I wanted to spin off the idea of re-classifying the forums. I personally think it will solve some of the issues, in particular, having a better understanding of where to post threads. The current layout has:

General Bridge Discussion
SAYC and 2/1 Discussion
Non-Natural System Discussion
Interesting Bridge Hands Discussion
Beginner and Intermediate Bridge Discussion
Advanced and Expert-Class Bridge
Offline Bridge
BPO - Bridge Poll Online
Youth Bridge
BBO Juniors

I have come up with a re-classification of Forums and Sub-Forums. My proposed re-classification is:

GENERAL BRIDGE DISCUSSION
Upcoming Tournaments and Events
Junior and Youth Bridge
Rulings, Appeals, and General Laws Discussion
Bridge Stories and Interesting Hands
Announcements and Well Wishes (Happy Birthday, Good Luck, Congrats, In Memorium, etc.)

BRIDGE PROBLEMS AREA
Bidding Problems
Lead and Defense Problems
Play Problems
Combination Problems (e.g. Bidding and Play)

SYSTEMS AND CONVENTIONS
Natural Systems Discussion (SAYC, 2/1, SEF, ACOL, etc.)
Strong Club/Diamond Systems Discussion
Multi-Way Club Systems Discussion
Standard Conventions Discussion (Blackwood, Systems over 1NT, Lebensohl, etc.)
Unusual Systems or Conventions Discussion

BRIDGE BY LEVEL*
Beginner Bridge Questions (Ask away, we won't bite)
Developing Player Questions
Expert Player Discussion

I also thought about the bridge level and think perhaps a better way to go about it is to have optional tags to go on posts (which could ideally be added to the templates along with the Dealer, Vulnerability, etc.):

TAGS
NS System (e.g. SAYC, 2/1, Precision)
EW System
NS Level (e.g. Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, Expert, WC)
EW Level
Interested in Views from (e.g. Everyone, BIL's, Advanced+, Experts and WC only, etc.)

[TimG]

I like the idea of new forum names. But, I think this scheme has a problem of duplication in the "bridge problem area" and "bridge by level". If I have an easy bidding problem, do I put it in "bidding problems" or "beginner bridge questions"?

As I've been reading through the suggestions, it has become more and more appealing to me to eliminate the "beginner", "intermediate", "advanced" and "expert" descriptions. I don't think it should be that difficult for experts to filter which threads they pay attention to. But, it would be useful to have the ability to both flag threads of special interest (or threads to be ignored) and to ignore individuals.

[awm]

I like the idea of reclassifying in some way. However, in this scheme it seems like:

(1) You have split the "non-natural systems" forum, currently one of the less active forums, into several parts. I don't see a real motivation for this.

(2) There is still the overlap of "classify by level" versus "classify by type of problem"

(3) You have actually increased the number of forums.

Perhaps a better solution is to compress the "systems/conventions" forums you suggested into just two ("standard" systems and common conventions... vs. "unusual" systems and conventions -- pretty much what we have now) and to allow some sort of tagging of threads based on difficulty level (which a moderator could then alter) rather than having specific "bridge by level" forums.

One thing I really like from Tim's suggestion is a way to tag threads as "favorites" and then retrieve them later. This would mean for example, if I start a thread or post to an interesting thread, then don't look at the forums for a week or two, when I come back I could still easily find that thread and see what others had to say. Also, if there is a particularly interesting thread, I could tag it in order to find it later (even long after people stop discussing it). This is quite a bit easier than trying to find things with the search function.

[mtvesuvius]

I like it! The only thing is that I think you can leave out a few forums, and add in one or 2 extras: I think you can omit the "Combination" Forum from the bridge problems area, an in the Systems/Conventions I think you should have "Natural Systems Discussion", "Strong Club Discussion", "Other Systems Discussion" and "Legal/Regulation Questions". Finally I think there should be in the *Bridge by level*: "Beginner/Intermediate Discussion", "Ask the Experts", "Experts Only Discussion" and maybe leave the Happy Birthday posts for the water cooler? Otherwise it all looks good .

[Apollo81]

Adam's post is the closest anyone has come to my opinion.

I'm not sure that "Bridge By Level" is necessary at all. Since the recent posts I've seen seem to agree that people cannot accurately classify their posts or ability, it seems like we'd have the same problem in this scheme. I would just get rid of the whole idea unless BBO Forums is going to establish an "expert panel" forum where only certain people can respond to posts (which I have mixed feelings about).

Anyway, if I were in charge of reclassification, I'd suggest something similar to gnome's suggestion:

GENERAL BRIDGE DISCUSSION
Upcoming Tournaments and Events
Junior and Youth Bridge
Rulings, Appeals, and General Laws Discussion
Bridge Stories and Interesting Hands

BRIDGE PROBLEMS
Bidding Problems
Lead and Defense Problems
Play Problems
Combination Problems (e.g. Bidding and Play)

SYSTEMS AND CONVENTIONS
Natural Systems Discussion (SAYC, 2/1, ACOL, etc)
Non-Natural Systems Discussion (Precision, Polish Club, etc)

Note that the total number of forums in this suggestion is 10, just like it is now.

I would like such a layout because I could focus on the "Bridge Problems" area without even looking at the other forums except maybe once in a while. I wouldn't have to scan a bunch of forums for problems like I do now.

[Stephen Tu]

I think there are just too many forums. I was happy with rec.games.bridge, just one newsgroup!

I'd personally want just: General Bridge Discussion, Problems/polls, Systems.

For Problems/polls, there could be some sort of radio flag that the thread starter could designate as "general interest", "beginner/int", "hard" as their classification of the difficulty of the problem.

[Apollo81]

Stephen Tu, on Feb 26 2009, 04:50 PM, said:

I think there are just too many forums. I was happy with rec.games.bridge, just one newsgroup!

I'd personally want just: General Bridge Discussion, Problems/polls, Systems.

For Problems/polls, there could be some sort of radio flag that the thread starter could designate as "general interest", "beginner/int", "hard" as their classification of the difficulty of the problem.

Too few forums is also a problem. Several posters have noted that the threads in which they are interested sometimes get drowned out by the other posts. Personally I think 10 is a good number of forums, and if we implemented my idea I think the posts would be spread out more evenly (except maybe bidding problems) thus reducing the drowning factor.

[TimG]

Apollo81, on Feb 26 2009, 03:49 PM, said:

GENERAL BRIDGE DISCUSSION
Upcoming Tournaments and Events
Junior and Youth Bridge
Rulings, Appeals, and General Laws Discussion
Bridge Stories and Interesting Hands

I don't see any need for a special Junior/Youth forum. Announcements for these events can go in the same forum as announcements for other events. Problems of conditions for these events can go in whatever forum conditions belong in. Etc.

[mtvesuvius]

TimG, on Feb 26 2009, 03:54 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Feb 26 2009, 03:49 PM, said:

GENERAL BRIDGE DISCUSSION
Upcoming Tournaments and Events
Junior and Youth Bridge
Rulings, Appeals, and General Laws Discussion
Bridge Stories and Interesting Hands

I don't see any need for a special Junior/Youth forum. Announcements for these events can go in the same forum as announcements for other events. Problems of conditions for these events can go in whatever forum conditions belong in. Etc.

True, Youth/Junior forums are not "needed", however there will occaisionally be special matters that will need to be posted there, such as U21 trials FAQ etc... It might not be 100% necessary, but it doesn't hurt anything.

[helene_t]

I like this new hype better than what we usually discuss in the water cooler

[hrothgar]

awm, on Feb 26 2009, 10:54 PM, said:

Perhaps a better solution is to compress the "systems/conventions" forums you suggested into just two ("standard" systems and common conventions... vs. "unusual" systems and conventions -- pretty much what we have now)

I suggest

"What we play" and "Weird *****"...

[H_KARLUK]

Apollo81, on Feb 26 2009, 10:49 PM, said:

Adam's post is the closest anyone has come to my opinion.

Ditto

Meanwhile other social activities here are also fine. Who knows one day there will be a friendly live meeting somewhere around

[Hanoi5]

I'd like it to look like this:

GENERAL BRIDGE DISCUSSION
Book & Software Reviews, Upcoming Tournaments and Events
Rulings, Appeals, and General Laws Discussion
Bridge Stories and Interesting Hands

BRIDGE PROBLEMS
Bidding Problems
Lead and Defense Problems
Play Problems
Combination Problems (e.g. Bidding and Play)

SYSTEMS AND CONVENTIONS
Natural Systems Discussion (SAYC, 2/1, ACOL, etc)
Non-Natural Systems Discussion (Precision, Polish Club, etc)

EXPERTS FORUM
Forum for Experts discussion (available for all to read, but just a few to write)

Additionally posts in the 'problems' forums will have a tag:

Interested in answers from everyone, beginners, intermediates, advanced, experts. Which means that the topic is addressed to that audience and seeks answers mainly from them.

[y66]

Second the apollo variation of the awm proposal. Don't think you need that combo forum though under problems.

[peachy]

IMO, anything that increases the number of forums is a bad idea. I would go the opposite direction - decrease the number and implement guidelines where certain type of posts should appear, with the help of moderators to control the traffic at least in the beginning of the potential new set of forums.

[matmat]

i think we should have a separate subforum for each user.

[matmat]

btw, I don't see how well this would work with archiving the current forums, as they are.

[david_c]

I disagree with the "there should be fewer forums" crowd. I think it is very helpful to put things in different forums depending on what sort of replies you are looking for. So:

If you want to start a discussion, try:
- Bidding Problems
- Play and Defense
(I'd keep it to just these two, personally.)

If you want advice, try
- Ask the Experts

If you have a hand you think would be interesting for B/I and don't want experts to jump in too quickly, try
- B/I Bridge Discussion

The only forum I would actually want to get rid of is the A/E forum. (I don't think there's much point in having a separate advanced forum unless it's a "real expert" forum.) So my list would be something like

General Bridge Discussion
Bridge Stories and Interesting Hands
Bidding Problems
Play and Defense
Ask the Experts
B/I Bridge Discussion
Natural System Discussion
Non-Natural System Discussion
Expert Forum [possibly]
Junior / Youth Bridge
Rulings and Laws Discussion

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

I disagree with the "there should be fewer forums" crowd. I think it is very helpful to put things in different forums depending on what sort of replies you are looking for. So:

?? I don't think having tons of categories will achieve the effect you desire. It doesn't work now, does it? The sort of reply you get depends on the type of question asked (and if you give guidance in the question you can shape the replies, at least from those who bother to pay attention), and the personalities of the people responding. I don't think one has much control over other people, and especially not just from category classification.

I also don't really see a distinction between discussion and advice (conflicting advice will naturally evolve into discussion).

Separating bidding from play/defense:
Are there really many forum participants who are *only* interested in one or the other? And then you need a 3rd forum for combined problems? Why not just identify by thread title?

I'd rather have fewer forums, and have a moderator have power to retitle threads, and just generally encourage people to accurately title their threads, then it's easy to pick out the ones you are interested in, without having to open a dozen browser tabs.

[brianshark]

I like your proposal but:

1. I would ditch the idea of tags. We could do without them.
2. I would merge several of the unusual system or unusual convention threads together. For example, I see no need for polish club to be in a different thread to carrot club or magic diamond. Similar principles apply to all of them though the technical details might vary.
3. I would leave out the 'developing player' thread. Just have a beginner/learner thread and an expert thread. everything else can go in the appropriate category.
4. No need for a seperate youth/junior forum.
5. No strict need for combination problems.

Suggestion:
GENERAL
Bridge Events/News/etc
Bridge Stories and Interesting Hands
Rulings and Laws Discussion

BRIDGE PROBLEMS
Bidding Problems
Play Problems
Lead and Defence Problems

LEVEL FORUMS
B/I Bridge Discussion
Expert Forum [possibly]

BIDDING SYSTEMS AND CONVENTIONS
Natural System Discussion
Non-Natural System Discussion