[inquiry]

An odd piece of advise here.

1) dont just learn the convention. Learn when to use it, and when yuo have a hand that looks like it might fit the convention, when NOT to use it.

2) Don't just learn the convention, learn the follow ups after the bid is used, and make sure you understand which hand types look like the convetion but are not used. Pay espeically attention to the obvious subsequent competitive auctions that might arrise.

3) When picking conventions to learn, focus on two kinds:
  Ones your parnters wnat to play -- it makes for happy partners
  Ones that fit gaps in your system to simplify yur actions
  Ones that are not easily forgotten in the heat of battle.

Try to add them in some logical sequences, not all at once. BTW, I love raptor (an early suggestiong in this thread), but for god's sake safe that one for much, much later.

Ben

[MikeRJ]

I am surprised how few people mention a cue bid in response to an overcall to show a good raise (eg 1H-1S-P-2H on Kxx, xx, AJxx, Kxxx). This has a high frequency of occurence and is certainly valuable opposite wide ranging overcalls.

Mike

[Winstonm]

Stayman
Jacoby Transfers
Negative Doubles
Roman Keycard Blackwood
Good/Bad 2NT
Splinter Bids

[bid_em_up]

cherdano, on Dec 5 2006, 07:13 PM, said:

I will have to change my profile to intermediate, as I have never played extended stayman, checkback stayman, Ghestem (well, not quite true, I have played twice on a particular partner's insistance, but he gave up after I forgot it the second time) and don't currently play Puppet stayman or multi.

Seriously, there is a lot of non-sense listed in this thread. I agree with Gerben, a lot more useful is stuff like cue=good raise, or jump raise in competition = weak, or that a forcing new suit bid at the 3-level is pretty much always game forcing, or some understanding of cue-bidding auctions.

That kind of stuff plus Justin's list plus good judgement is enough to win a world championship, so why waste an intermediate's time learning teaching him other stuff? Ok I am getting a bit radical, but I am sure I am closer to the truth than puppet stayman being a necessity.

I dont recall ever saying that anything on my list was an "absolute must have" or a necessity (other than maybe the first seven). Anything after that, and at a very distant order of importance, I thought I stated that all were about equal in merit, and you can use them or not as anyone sees fit. However, it does help to at least be familiar with all of them, imo, for when they are used against you. And of course, the further down the list you get, the less value I would assign to any of the conventions (other than the defense to Multi).

Other things, like "a lot more useful is stuff like cue=good raise, or jump raise in competition = weak, or that a forcing new suit bid at the 3-level is pretty much always game forcing, or some understanding of cue-bidding auctions", are things that you would/should have an agreement with your partner regarding these bids (I dont necessarily consider these to be "conventions"). And also, I wasnt thinking about bids with unusual meanings at the time of posting. (Note I didnt include Western Cuebids).

Reverses, I included because many (even advanced players) do not use them properly, or insist that they do not carry any extra meaning, which is, to the best of my knowledge, outside the mainstream philosophy.

You dont like splinters? Don't play them.

You like Drury, by all means play it.

You think 4SF should be #6 on your list, please feel free to place it there.

Minor suit transfers are (at least in my case) included in Jacoby.

Really, why do people insist on picking apart what is/was an attempt at a helpful post?

Just as an fyi, extended stayman allows a partnership to further inquire about NT openers hand pattern, after 1N-2C-2x, to find out if opener has a 5 card major, or a side four card minor, or in the case of a 2D response, which 4 card minor(s) or 5 card minor that the NT opener holds. I only use this in one partnership but I have found that it can be quite helpful.

[neilkaz]

I'll mention a few conventions that aren't in BBO Basic that I think are very useful and not too hard.

1) Inverted Minors is tops on my list. How anyone plays without some kind of forcing minor raise is beyond me. However, they are many different rebidding schemes by opener and that causes confusion and difficulty in learning this great convention.

2) Some kind of New Minor Forcing or Check Back. Many here in the US play NMF, but I bet they'd switch to XYZ once they tried it. Many many hands involve opener rebidding 1NT and it is essential to be able to accurate probe further or s/off in a suit. XYZ also applies when opener's rebid is 1 of a suit and that can be somewhat useful.

3) A direct Q bid in the overcaller's suit shows a limit raise or better for opener's suit. This allows preemptive raises after the overcall just like the Jordon 2NT after a take out double does.

4) Lebensohl uses and artificial 2NT bid to be able to distinguish between good and bas hands bid at the 3 level in competition in response to your PD's double of their weak 2 or when RHO has overcalled PD's 1NT opening. Subsequent bidding can also show whether their suit is stopped for NT, but if intermediates simply learn that 2♠-X-P-3♥ shows a decent hand, and 2♠-X-P-2NT!-P-3♣!-P-3♥ shows a weak hand with no game interest unless the doubler has lots of extra values, the opp's weak 2's are less effective. Leb can also be used to show a minimum in response to PD's reverses.

5) Splinters to show singletons and a game force can take up lots of room, but when used properly can help reach slams on somewhat less than normal HCP since PD knows his honor cards outside the splinter suit are working while his KJx in the splinter suit is worth less than normal and he may then avoid a slam probe.

6) RKCB is useful for staying out of bad slams since you can find out about the K and Q of trumps in addition to all 4 aces. It can sometimes be confusing as to what the trump suit is, of if one has been specified. I also like Minorwood to keep the bidding low to allow one to bail out in 5 of a minor, but it can be confusing for inters. as to when 4m is Minorwood and not that many people play it as of yet.

So when I play some kind of standard American 5 card majors with pickups, I hope they play some of these, above.

BBB lists Landy 2♣ over opps 1NT but I prefer DONT to Capp and I find that more Americans can play Capp than Landy and even DONT than Landy.

I prefer negX thru 3♠ and am surprised that BBB and SAYC only play them thru 2♠ since most players play them higher.

Jacoby 2NT is a must for a GF major suit raise and adds more accuracy than bidding a 2/1 and then bidding game at some point. It is part of SAYC (many don't know that) and BBB and should be learned by all who play standard American systems.

100% systems on in response to a 1NT overcall makes life easier and I wish it were standard in BBB.

4th suit forcing is also a must and listed in BBB and BBA.

Just my opinions .. neilkaz ..

[keylime]

If I had to provide a list of "needed conventions" that were off the beaten path, here's what I'd offer:

Transfer bids with Keri
Intermediate 2 bids (2D/H/S in standard)
Fit showing jumps in competition
Splinter jumps out of competition
Lionel, Meckwell, or Landy (Landy's not THAT bad)
Weak NT
Romex Stayman over 2NT and/or Soloff
Principle of Slow Arrival
Swedish 2NT with Invitational Jump Shifts
2 Way NMF
Gazzilli 2C
G/F Inverted Minors
Turbo
Cuebid Doubles
Intermediate Jump Overcalls

Needed books:

Watson's Play of the Hand
Kantar's books about defense and RKCB
Bid Better, Much Better by Klinger
Why You Lose at Bridge

[jillybean]

This thread is very interesting but seems to be getting a bit off topic from 'Intermediate Conventions'

One question, why should we learn both 4sf and nmf ?

[the hog]

One convention no one has mentioned, which I personally think is a vast improvement over Stayman is Keri. The only problem of course, is that you have to play this in a pemanent partnership as virtually no pick up partner will know it. Even if they do, their interpretations may well differ from yours. Mind you, the latter part of my comment applies to Puppet stayman as well.

[keylime]

Keri definitely is much better than Stayman and transfers, agreed. Just being able to stop at 2 on invite hands is worth the price of admission.

[Robert]

Hi jillybean2

nmf is normally played after a 1NT rebid(many also play it after a natural 2NT rebid)

4sf is used when the partnership has bid three suits.

I like to play the XYZ convention 'if possible' instead of both 4sf and nmf. When I first found out about this convention, it seemed much better than either of those bids.

Hi everyone

I looked at Keri, however, it just did not do nearly as well in getting me to all of the good contracts that my version of Stayman achieved. Keri also seemed to have a couple of holes in the bidding that just proved too great a price to pay.

Intermediate? We left that far behind when the first long list of conventions was posted. Most players would do much better to play fewer conventions. They need to 'know' how to use(and also 'not use') a convention before it becomes worthwhile.

Regards,
Robert

[gwnn]

awm,

I think reading Partnership Bidding at Bridge (the competitive auction) by Robson/Segal is very helpful (especially if both partners do it). Its copyright has been removed and it is widely available online. Has it ever occured to you how often you have the auction all for yourself? Like 4-5 times a session? It has gread advice available and some "conventional calls" in it (fit jumps, fit non-jumps, etc etc) that are not mandatory, but helpful. I think 99% of posters told u that NMF is a "must" - Andrew Robson and Ollie Segal will tell you otherwise ("raise on 3 card support with a minimum unbalanced hand") - will get to play some 4-3 fits BUT that will help one's declarer play <-- good thing. No more NMF, Yes more naturality!

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

assuming he already understands the basics,
i.e. the essential conventions

- Stayman
- 4th suit forcing
- Takeout double / Neg. Double
- Blackwood

he should look at conventions helping him to
survive the interference by the opponents

- Cue Bid to show a sound raise, direct raises being weak
- a simple form of Lebensohl / Good Bad 2NT / what ever
you may call it.
If they interfere on the 2 level, a 2NT bit is always
artificial

Simply put: He should look out for conventions with
a high frequency, which reoccur under different names in
similar situations again and again.
He should be wary to add a convention unless he thinks
he understands the pros and the cons of the conventions,
and he should add them slowly over time.

With kind regrards
Marlowe

[paulg]

I taught my wife to play bridge over 15 years ago and we still play the same system and conventions. She does not play very much (as she is the top woman Scrabble player in the world) but is a strong card player who does not worry about conventions.

We play:

• Stayman
  
• 4th suit forcing
  
• Low level doubles are takeout if we do not shown a fit (so this includes takeout, responsive and negative doubles)
  
• Blackwood when 4NT is on the second round or a jump
  
• Simple carding
  
• Fit jumps (a recent addition)

This has been sufficient for us to win multiple club and county titles, plus a Mixed Pairs title at a national congress.

Note that we do not play transfers, unusual 2NT, Michaels, RKCB, inverted minors, any defence to 1NT, Lebensohl, weak 2s, complex major suit raises, new minor forcing. They are not necessary to do well if you have a sound set of basic agreements.

However, she would clearly struggle to play with anyone on-line with this minimal set and I think she would probably have to learn to play transfers. But everything else is just a crutch and improving your declarer play and defence will be far more rewarding than learning a lot of conventions.

Paul

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean2, on Dec 6 2006, 12:37 AM, said:

This thread is very interesting but seems to be getting a bit off topic from 'Intermediate Conventions' 

One question, why should we learn both 4sf and nmf ?

Hi,

if you understand 4sf, you understand nmf.
if you understand 4sf, you also understand
cue bidding the enemy suit.

4sf is one of the most important conventions if the
auction is uncontested. (*)
4sf comes in different flavours, and if you say 4sf is only
on in responders 2nd bid, than ... whats the hype.
But if you say 4sf is on if our side has bid 3 suits
naturally, than this covers a whole lot of ground.

With kind regards
Marlowe

(*) It is true, most auctions are contested, but you should
already know how to walk before you start to run.

If you cant bid correctly in the cases the opponents
give you all the room which is available, you have no
chance to bid correctly in cases they kill the space.

[csdenmark]

Such lists with conventions has a tendency to become wish lists. In another thread Richard provided a link to international TD's discussions who agreed that 95% dont even have solid knowledge of a basic system. I assume they pointed to the problem discussed here.

Certainly we all will benefit from knowing everything but we will benefit more if we knew the same and especially knew it in the same way. Ben pointed to that. I think that normal players has a fair knowledge of about 25% from the lists. His pick up partners also knows 25% but not the same 25%. Their shared pool of knowledge to use and to take advantage from will be reduced, say to 10-15%. Next partner again some other 10-15% and that to be reduced to 8-10% with first partner.

In that way bridge is reduced to something very simple nobody dare to talk about.

This is heading for rude behavior, poor score, leaving partner etc.

[Walddk]

I agree with Paul. Play as few conventions as possible. The more you add, the more there is to forget. If I was asked to choose just one convention from the bidding and carding area, I would choose:

- Negative doubles.
- Count.

I regard take-out doubles as part of a basic system. I think I would do well with no more than the two gadgets mentioned above, and I am convinced that beginners and intermeidates are much better off if they don't add much more, if anything.

You often see profiles cluttered with all sorts of conventions. Names of conventions don't mean a thing; the essential part is to understand and use them properly, and most don't.

Am I wrong when I claim that in most instances all those conventions appear on the profiles because the users want to impress other people? Perhaps in order to get a game with a better partner? Nothing hurts like the truth, and in my view those players often show that they don't understand the implications of the gadgets once they sit down to play them.

Roland

[vang]

neilkaz, on Dec 6 2006, 06:32 AM, said:

1) Inverted Minors is tops on my list. How anyone plays without some kind of forcing minor raise is beyond me.

ask Chemla, Lebel or other french champions (they sometimes fake a 1D after 1C or 2C after 1D response).

imo, inverted minors is good but not mandatory.

[Walddk]

neilkaz, on Dec 6 2006, 06:32 AM, said:

1) Inverted Minors is tops on my list. How anyone plays without some kind of forcing minor raise is beyond me.

I survived the first 30 years of my bridge career without inverted minor raises. I play them but I can live without them. It's nice to have "inverted" on your CC or profile, but if you don't have agreements regarding the subsequent auction, they are useless.

"Inverted minors, partner"? "Sure". Board 3:

1♣ - 2♣
??

And then many invent a bid they expect partner to understand. Many fail to realise that once you add a new convention, it takes a fair amount of time to go through all the different options and meanings.

You don't have time for that with a pick-up partner on BBO, so if I was asked "inverted minors"? by someone I do not have specific agreements with, I would decline. I much prefer to play Goren, Stayman, Blackwood instead of wasting my time with all sorts of conventions, most of which the person who suggests them don't know in detail.

Roland

[Free]

My advice is to concentrate on competitive bidding:

1. takeout doubles: always, at every level,... (with few exceptions)
2. various ways to raise partner (including fit jumps and non jumps)

Read Partnership Bidding at Bridge from Robson-Seagal, great book, covers it all!