[Walddk]

And I'll get commentators for the match if you want me to. However, there are a couple of problems:

1. At this point we don't know our full vugraph schedule for April.
2. We can't prevent anyone from voicing their opinions in the team match area. We can in the VG theatre, but not as far as team matches are concerned.

Roland

[Sigi_BC84]

Walddk, on Feb 13 2006, 06:39 PM, said:

And I'll get commentators for the match if you want me to. However, there are a couple of problems:

1. At this point we don't know our full vugraph schedule for April.
2. We can't prevent anyone from voicing their opinions in the team match area. We can in the VG theatre, but not as far as team matches are concerned.

Roland

Let people voice their opinions if they want. I don't see a major problem here:

a. The big star matches with 500+ kibs that I've watched were totally OK in this regard so far.

b. Moscito vs. Natural might not draw as many people as Fantunes for example; that will keep noise lower, too.

c. Also I expect many kibs to be quite interested in the matter (i.e. less "random" kibitzers), leading to a higher expected discipline in my eyes; also it would be convenient for these people to be able to talk about what's happening.

So I'm voting for having an open chat and rely on people not chatting into the room.

--Sigi

[Walddk]

Sigi_BC84, on Feb 13 2006, 06:59 PM, said:

b. Moscito vs. Natural might not draw as many people as Fantunes for example; that will keep noise lower, too.

Believe me, you are wrong. If Fred is playing, "all" of BBO will be watching. We have seen that on numerous occasions.

If only specs would stick to bridge related issues, all would be fine. Sadly, we see all kinds of irrelevant nonsense too. No way we can stop that unless we boot one after the other. We have seen that happen before, unfortunately, and in my opinion this was a harsh thing to do.

Roland

[akhare]

hrothgar, on Feb 12 2006, 07:17 PM, said:

Not sure who the other pair is. Worst case, you'll be stuck with me and Free or the Hog, or maybe Echognome...

Sounds great -- on a related note, I too vote for the open chat unless we have a couple of Moscito experts willing to explain the auction as it unfolds and respond to queries..

Atul

[Echognome]

I suggested to Richard that we try to have two matches. One involving stars and the other involving the bourgeoisie. I think it would be fun to do a series of scientists vs naturalists in general, rather than just MOSCITO vs all comers. But, I'm happy to see any good match in this context. I wonder if we could set up something bigger, like a multiple teams event where we had different systems competing. I know I could field a Tarzan club team for example. Maybe we could have a Fantunes team, a polish club team, a MOSCITO team, etc. I know that is all a great deal more than setting up a simple team match, but I think it would be interesting for people to follow. Anyway, the important thing is that it looks like we will get one great match with MOSCITO vs natural and I, for one, would love to see it played.

[luke warm]

roland is right about fred playing, that's an almost guaranteed kib overload (in a good way)... as for chat, i'll be the lone (thusfar) desenter.. i'd much prefer knowledgable commentators in the vugraph hall with no kib chat to interfere..

this looks great

[Sigi_BC84]

OK, having Fred in the equation will certainly add many kibitzers.

There is another advantage of playing in a normal team room, which is that the players can alert the calls (are self alerts possible in the vugraph theater, too?) or that Full Disclore could be used (probably the best option, if available).

--Sigi

[Walddk]

Sigi_BC84, on Feb 14 2006, 01:42 AM, said:

There is another advantage of playing in a normal team room, which is that the players can alert the calls (are self alerts possible in the vugraph theater, too?)

Alerts in the vugraph theatre are made by the operator.

Roland

[hrothgar]

Here are my current thoughts

1. I'd very much like to see a series of exhibition matches designed to showcase different bidding methods. I'm not particularly interested in trying to establish which system is "best". Rather, I think that there is some real value in exposing players to different philosophies regarding bidding. As other people have suggested, I think that this is best accomplished by ensuring that we have knowledgable commentators available to describe whats going on. Personally, I'd prefer to have a series of matches run rather than a massive hodgepodge. In April we have 2/1 GF versus MOSCITO. Does anyone have the "right" contacts to set up a Poland versus Italy match in May? (I'm sure this woudl be a great match and wouldn't require imposing on Fred)

2. If there is serious interest, I'd be happy to arrange a second "nebbish" match using the same boards and same (basic) bidding systems to be run concurrently.

[Sigi_BC84]

hrothgar, on Feb 14 2006, 01:53 AM, said:

2. If there is serious interest, I'd be happy to arrange a second "nebbish" match using the same boards and same (basic) bidding systems to be run concurrently.

I guess it goes without saying that there is quite some interest in this. The idea of having regular exhibition matches of this kind is wonderful. Maybe this will catch on, would be really awesome.

--Sigi

[akhare]

hrothgar, on Feb 13 2006, 07:53 PM, said:

2.  If there is serious interest, I'd be happy to arrange a second "nebbish" match using the same boards and same (basic) bidding systems to be run concurrently.

Sounds good -- do let me know if you need Moscito players for the "also played" team -- I will be happy to play the system.

BTW, this will presumably be the Moscito system from your Moscito 2000 document, right?

Atul

[cherdano]

I would like to echo Richard's comment that this will be best if we have knowledgeable commentators, in particular about the non-natural systems. I.e. someone who not only can explain the meaning of the relays, but also relate why the player chose relays over a 4-card GF raise or vice versa. Or what he decided not to find out about when the bidding just went 1N-3N. Etc.

I am sure this will be great. Btw, I wouldn't call it "2/1 vs Moscito"; I understand that for Frances and her partner, a 2/1 isn't even promising a rebid.

Arend

[Gerben42]

I bet the stronger team will win regardless of system. Still, it will be interesting to see

[Sigi_BC84]

Gerben42, on Feb 14 2006, 01:21 PM, said:

I bet the stronger team will win regardless of system. Still, it will be interesting to see

I don't think we should take the competition as an attempt to find out which system is superior -- of course in the end the "better" team will win, if not randomness will decide matters (since it will be a fairly short match after all).

To make this an interesting and worthwhile event we only need fairly balanced teams in terms of playing (carding) strength and, most importantly, good commentators who are giving some in-depth explanations about what is happening (like Arend has pointed out very clearly).

What I'm looking forward to is, firstly, seeing Moscito in action in a "serious" event where each side is giving their best. Secondly, I'm hoping to see at least some boards where both methods will show their merits, respectively. Who is winning in the end doesn't matter that much to me.

--Sigi

[Elianna]

To me, the main benefit of commentators in vugraph is that (hopefully!) they will have system notes and be able to explain the bidding.

In these proposed matches, I'm assuming that people will have FD loaded, or at the very least be alerting, and so my desire for commentators is nonexistant.

In fact, I vote for closing table chat, and if people want to talk they can private chat with each other.

I may be the only one that feels this way, and if so, I already am set: I have most of the people who like expounding at WC tables clubbed already!

[Walddk]

Elianna, on Feb 14 2006, 04:36 PM, said:

In these proposed matches, I'm assuming that people will have FD loaded

Does the FD also tell you how to declare and defend? Maybe expert commentators could help with that. You may not need it but I bet that hundreds do and that they will appreciate it. Your approach seems somewhat selfish imo.

Roland

[luis]

I might ask my mom AnaA to play again, we play the German version of Moscito known as German-Moscito but the whole relays are there as usual, with denial cuebids and related.
I'm not sure about the local schedule for April or if you want me to play or not.

Luis

[awm]

Walddk, on Feb 14 2006, 10:41 AM, said:

Does the FD also tell you how to declare and defend? Maybe expert commentators could help with that. You may not need it but I bet that hundreds do and that they will appreciate it. Your approach seems somewhat selfish imo.

Roland

That's what GIB is for.... just kidding.

There's definitely a subset of the audience that doesn't enjoy or value the commentary. While it would certainly be selfish to want to cut off those people who enjoy the comments by enforcing silence at the table, it's also a bit egotistical to enforce that everyone must listen to the commentators chat.

For regular vugraph, it's easy enough to satisfy both groups. Just let the commentators commentate, and if someone doesn't want to listen they can club the commentators and check "ignore enemy chat."

But that's not the choice at a team table. The options are either let everyone talk or disallow chat by everyone. It's not feasible to club everyone at a table with 100s of kibs, and if there's a lot of random chatter then even the people who want to listen to the qualified commentators may be unable to. Silencing kib chat seems like a very reasonable option here.

On the other hand, I should mention that for a long time okbridge had no such controls (anyone could chat to kibitzers) and yet the majority would be fairly quiet during top flight matches.

Perhaps the ideal in the long run would be to set up vugraph-like controls for team matches, so that if certain options are selected, only "official commentators" would be able to chat to kibitzers.

[cherdano]

I don't think it's necessary to regulate kibitz chat for this match. We now frequently have world class (in the proper sense, not the BBO definition) matches or tables on BBO, and the kib chat usually isn't overflowing. (And when there is kib chat, it's not necessarily worse in quality or less bridge related than the comments by some of the regular commentators.)
Anyway, I am sure players capable of commenting play and defense will show up. But the same won't be true about the bidding unless hrothgar can arrange it in advance.

Arend