[dburn]

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IMP scoring. East-West play five-card majors, 1♦ three cards only if 4=4=3=2, tend to open 1♦ with 4-4 in the minors, strong no trump. Both opponents are sounder bidders than your partner.

What call do you make?

[Scoti]

My highly unscientific answer . . . In a tounament I'll use my 30 seconds to practical considerations. 5 d looks almost cold, with p void in d. I want to score on them or minimize theirs. non-vul. 5H and see who dbls or doesnt, will tell me a lot. (also I give P credit that he would make his 4, and it does play better than it defends in any case. So I'm willing to put them to 7d if need be, risking 6h-2 lol, if I decide Ive pushed them to a good slam they might have missed, and they feel brave). I'm not willing to dbl and ask them to hurt me more. Then the only good thing that can happen, a successful defense, is a very small gain. But if they are preempting H and I talk P into pass with my dbl, that is very bad. Or they Make dbl is very bad. To pass and allow undbl Make is also very bad for us. So by process of elimination I must push on to where good things can possibly happen. }8-)

[Scoti]

Sorry having an Edit-challenged day ....

[nige1]

dburn, on 2010-December-27, 17:58, said:

IMP scoring. East-West play five-card majors, 1♦ three cards only if 4=4=3=2, tend to open 1♦ with 4-4 in the minors, strong no trump. Both opponents are sounder bidders than your partner.
What call do you make?

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IMO 6♥ = 10, 5♥ = 9, _X = 8. Close decision because you have good defence (your diamond-length could cause them problems) and opponents are vulnerable.

[Siegmund]

I'll bid 5H and expect it to make more often than not thanks to the club shortness (and of course will punish them if they push on to 6D, as long as that won't ask partner to lead a club.)

[Phil]

5♥. I think 6♥ is beyond loony-tunes.

[mohitz]

5♥.

[dburn]

Follow-up question: if you bid 5♥, is this auction forcing on the opening bidder? Say why, or say why not - there are many janitors who would love to hear from you.

[jschafer]

Imo 5♥ does not create a forcing pass. As far as your partner is concerned we could have a hand that is sacrificing over 5♦ right (especially at this vul)? For me, a Pass is forcing when we have shown game forcing values.

EDIT: Didn't realise it was opening side forcing pass . Still not forcing imo, 5♦ could be weak at this vul.

[gnasher]

It usually turns out to be right to bid in these situations, so I bid 5♥. I don't think the opening side are (or should be) in a forcing pass situation.

[Fluffy]

Suggesting a 5 level sacrifice puts us in a classical forcing pass situation seems ridicoulous.

If instead of forcing pass you mean that over 6♦-pass-pass we are in that position where double is exactly 1 defensive trick and pass is 2 it makes sense if you play that convention (But I never did).


I would bid 5♥ in a flash, 6♥ is not likelly to make, we would need spades to run and that will happen when partner has ♠Q or 3 cards and some luck.

[kgr]

jschafer, on 2010-December-28, 04:24, said:

EDIT: Didn't realise it was opening side forcing pass . Still not forcing imo, 5♦ could be weak at this vul.

Strange that you have "at this vul" or did you mean ",also at this vul"

[Fluffy]

I Also missed whose side it was a forcing pass situation.

5♦ bidder is wide ranged, and so is 1♦ opener, because of that, it makes sense to play forcing pass so that they have some room to invite moving on. But for the same reason there is a posibility of 5♦ having stretched to bid, and 5♥X getting 2 overtricks like on this deal. IMO unless you have strict rules about bidding game vulnerable creates a foricng pass you should not consider this one as forcing.

[han]

I would bid a non-forcing 5H.

[nige1]

dburn, on 2010-December-28, 04:09, said:

Follow-up question: if you bid 5♥, is this auction forcing on the opening bidder? Say why, or say why not - there are many janitors who would love to hear from you.

Although vulnerable opponents have already bid to the five-level, it is still unclear who has the balance of strength or who is sacrificing against whom (or indeed whether anybody is sacrificing at all). IMO, in such contexts, unless opponents have some special agreement, there can be no forcing pass.

[pooltuna]

dburn, on 2010-December-27, 17:58, said:

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IMP scoring. East-West play five-card majors, 1♦ three cards only if 4=4=3=2, tend to open 1♦ with 4-4 in the minors, strong no trump. Both opponents are sounder bidders than your partner.

What call do you make?

rethought how the hand would be played and still would call 5♥

[pooltuna]

dburn, on 2010-December-28, 04:09, said:

Follow-up question: if you bid 5♥, is this auction forcing on the opening bidder? Say why, or say why not - there are many janitors who would love to hear from you.

I would say not forcing as he knows you cant tell if he is bidding to make or sacrificing.

[rduran1216]

toss up between 5H and 6H

Phil can't partner have the very likely

xx
AQ10xxxxx
-
Kxx

and with A of clubs probably onside 6H is untouchable

[Phil]

A forcing pass would not be created (by the side bidding the diamonds) unless I were a passed hand.

Perhaps the janitor thinks differently.

[Phil]

rduran1216, on 2010-December-28, 12:46, said:

toss up between 5H and 6H

Phil can't partner have the very likely

xx
AQ10xxxxx
-
Kxx

and with A of clubs probably onside 6H is untouchable

If a frog had wings....

oh never mind.