[han]

7

AJ10865

How do you play this one?

I have a feeling that this one has been posted before, but it came up yesterday and I didn't remember it. I had to figure it out again, so it is only fair that everybody else has to do the same thing.

[Echognome]

For how many tricks? MPs or IMPs?

[Chamaco]

Echognome, on Sep 5 2005, 05:49 AM, said:

For how many tricks? MPs or IMPs?

It does not matter how many tricks are needed or form of scoring.

None of the above affect the solution: there is only one way only to play this suit (in isolation from the rest of the hand)

[FrancesHinden]

Chamaco, on Sep 5 2005, 03:32 AM, said:

Echognome, on Sep 5 2005, 05:49 AM, said:

For how many tricks?  MPs or IMPs?

It does not matter how many tricks are needed or form of scoring.

None of the above affect the solution: there is only one way only to play this suit (in isolation from the rest of the hand)

Of course the number of tricks matters.

If I need five tricks from the suit and RHO plays a small pip when I lead from dummy I shall put the ace up.

[Chamaco]

FrancesHinden, on Sep 5 2005, 08:37 AM, said:

Chamaco, on Sep 5 2005, 03:32 AM, said:

Echognome, on Sep 5 2005, 05:49 AM, said:

For how many tricks?  MPs or IMPs?

It does not matter how many tricks are needed or form of scoring.

None of the above affect the solution: there is only one way only to play this suit (in isolation from the rest of the hand)

Of course the number of tricks matters.

If I need five tricks from the suit and RHO plays a small pip when I lead from dummy I shall put the ace up.

That's why I think it does not matter, from the practical viewpoint, see hidden text

Spoiler

I shall put the ace up anyways, an then play small, to drop Hx.
If 3-3 split, no difference.
Actually, it might indeed make a difference if the split is 51 with 5 cards "onside", in that case the finesse might win 3 tricks *if there is time and entries to develop the long trick*.
This condition, though, seems rare to me from the practical viewpoint, but of course from the theoretical viewpoint should be considered

[Echognome]

Sorry, I had to cheat to make sure I wasn't talking nonsense. Indeed, Suitplay says that the play for 4 tricks and for 5 tricks is different and of course one of those two lines is also the best play for maxtricks (i.e. MPs). Neither line had the optimal play as going up with the ace if a small pip is played.

[Gerben42]

The play with the ace is good, but since we have the 8 playing towards the 8 is better

[Chamaco]

Echognome, on Sep 5 2005, 09:37 AM, said:

Sorry, I had to cheat to make sure I wasn't talking nonsense. Indeed, Suitplay says that the play for 4 tricks and for 5 tricks is different and of course one of those two lines is also the best play for maxtricks (i.e. MPs). Neither line had the optimal play as going up with the ace if a small pip is played.

Sorry, of course you are right, I checked better :-)

[FrancesHinden]

Echognome, on Sep 5 2005, 04:37 AM, said:

Sorry, I had to cheat to make sure I wasn't talking nonsense. Indeed, Suitplay says that the play for 4 tricks and for 5 tricks is different and of course one of those two lines is also the best play for maxtricks (i.e. MPs). Neither line had the optimal play as going up with the ace if a small pip is played.

Indeed putting the ace up is wrong for five tricks, spoke too quickly.
It's an interesting suit combination, because I think there is a difference between
a) The best theoretical line
the best line if the long suit is in dummy and oppo don't know how many you have, though this is close to (a).
c) the best line if the singleton is in dummy and oppo don't know your exact holding (whether or not they know how many you hold)

As an example, you towards the AJ10 and the 9 is played by the next hand. Does that change your line? What if an honour is played? Does it matter if ( or © is the case?

(Have I tempted you to think about what cards to play as the defence in this layou?)

[Echognome]

Hmm. The only ways to make 5 tricks are KQ9, KQx, K9, Q9 onside or KQ tight offside. The play for the first 4 of these is to play to the 10. Note that is RHO false-cards with the 9, this does not change the best play for 5 tricks as you were hoping to find K9, Q9, or KQ9 anyway. The fact that RHO might play the 9 from 9xxx only makes my life easier as I will be laying down the A next anyway and he has just blown a trick. Playing for 4 tricks though is a different matter.