[Badmonster]

I play gambling 3n because I'm under the impression that it's a bid who's purpose is equally served by a 2c opener and a rebid. I also play it because that's what I was taught to play.

However, a hand suitable for this bid comes up very rarely.

I wonder though who else plays it and who doesn't and why?

[Walddk]

We have had this discussion before. My advice is that you do not play 3NT as gambling (solid minor with little outside). The reason is that if NT is right (once in a blue moon), it will be wrong-sided.

However, I also know that a vast majority still uses 3NT for this purpose. That doesn't make it more valid in my opinion.

You can use 3NT for various other purposes, but the bottom line is that Fred Gitelman is 100% correct when he says that you should only open 3NT if you do not want to play there!

Roland

[Double !]

Badmonster, on Aug 18 2005, 07:25 PM, said:

I play gambling 3n because I'm under the impression that it's a bid who's purpose is equally served by a 2c opener and a rebid. I also play it because that's what I was taught to play.

However, a hand suitable for this bid comes up very rarely.

I wonder though who else plays it and who doesn't and why?

I assume that, when you say "by opening 2C and a rebid", that you are referring to some form of natural, limited 2C opener such as in precision. One big difference. The 3NT opening doesn't contain outside stoppers while the structures that I know for rebidding after 2C openers assume cards/ at least one stopper/ outside of the club suit (such as 2C-2D-?). Even the precision 3C opener assumes that the hand is not just 7 (8) solid clubs and out. If you are referring to a strong, forcing 2C opener, it has been ruled that one may not open such a hand with 2C (in acbl) as far as I know. But, I guess that there is no reason why one couldn't create a rebid structure after opening a limited, natural 2C to account for such a hand.

[Rain]

I can tell you who doesn't. GIB doesn't. Painful experience.

Dohhhhhhhh

[whereagles]

I disagree with 3NT gambling wrong-siding the contract being a problem. The cheif purpose of the bid ISN'T to play 3NT but to give pard an accurate description of the hand.

The side effects of wrong-siding a possible 3NT are, in my opinion, GREATLY offset by the precision you have from making the bid.

[coyot]

I'm not sure about how often the wrong-siding causes problems, but I am sure of something else - these hands happen so little that it is a wasted bid.

(I played gambling 3NT for about 4 years - or, better said, TRIED to play ... but it occured only a few times... (definitely less than once a year)).

I abandoned it for minor preempts.
Currently:
3NT shows a hand that would "naturally" open 4 of a minor, given the current red/white state.

4♣ and 4♦ are Namyats, showing 4-4.5 LTC on a long major (clubs for hearts, diamonds for spades), while denying defensive potential.
4♥ and 4♠ are classic preempts.

I.e., the minor bids are used for hands that have offensive strength of almost game and defensive strength of a bad opener or below. Typically the hand could look like KQJxxxxx-x-KQJ-x or a little weaker... There is no need to open this hand 1♠ because you know that you want to play 4♠ anyway, it is too good to open 4♠...

This happens significantly more often than gambling 3NT, becase while it requires similarly long suit, it does not need a particular honor concentration.

Another alternative is to use 3NT as "broken minor", which then promises a long minor with 2 from AKQ (and not AK). It is used similarly to gambling, offering the possibility to "steal" 3NT on 20 HCP... and you can decide whether to add Namyats to it or play 4th level naturally... (If you add Namyats to Broken Minor, you will simply have to decide between 3m and 5m with any long garbage hand )

[pigpenz]

with one of my regular partners we play namyats style gambling 3nt.

3♣ and 3♦ are solid suits
3NT is broken suits

[kenberg]

I have been playing with my current f2f partner for about four years, roughly once a week. I don't think either of us has yet opened 3NT. Besides being an unused bid, there is also the issue of whether we will both remember the same things when/if it does arise. I think 4D asks for my stiff, I think 4NT in response shows a minor stiff (assuming pard can know what my long minor is), and 5 of either minor shows than minor and no stiff. I would not like my life to depend on partner remembering this the same way. This is what happens when reasonably serious but not totally devoted players take up an infrequent convention. Maybe it is time to dump this one. There must be better uses of our time, even if we are both retired, than discussing responses to a bid that in four years of play hasn't arisen.

[dogsbreath]

hi
the usefullness / frequency of all bids should be a concern of any regular p'ship, but anomalies seem to occur.. With my 'live' p , we play 2S opening as 5-5 S+minor weak.. in 3 years of play I have yet to have a 2S opening .. on the rare occassions when I have the right hand, either p or opps have opened the bidding. Does this mean the bid has no use? i dont know .. i know that our use of the bid is not uncommon, but in practice it's been a complete waste and would have been better used to 'unload' our multi 2D opening.
We also play gambling 3nt and havent had one of those either

Rgds Dog

[pclayton]

Another idea is to play 2N --> 3♥ as transfer preempts. 3♠ becomes the Gambling 3N bid, leaving 3N as either the 4 level preempt or a NAMYATS 4 of a major opener (my choice).

3♠ gets the contract right sided, but there is the capability for the defense to stick in a lead director, and show interest in a non-spade lead as well.

I've given up on showing a solid 7 bagger on the 1st round of bidding. AKQ-7th alone justifies a one bid anyway.

[Winstonm]

Badmonster, on Aug 18 2005, 07:25 PM, said:

I play gambling 3n because I'm under the impression that it's a bid who's purpose is equally served by a 2c opener and a rebid. I also play it because that's what I was taught to play.

However, a hand suitable for this bid comes up very rarely.

I wonder though who else plays it and who doesn't and why?

I don't use it for this reason: I find it more valuable to know what strength partner has for his 4-level major suit opening.

Also, the more hands I can remove from the catchall of a strong 2C opener, the more precise that bid becomes.

So:

Void, AKQJ10xx, AK, QJ10x. We open 4C, showing a strong heart hand, and over a 4H signoff can bid 4S Keycard Exclusion for the other 2 suits with the agreememt that at least 1 of the keycards is held by opener. That leaves 3 keycards to show. First step: 0. Second 1. Bid small slam with 2. Bid grand slam with 3.

A 3N opening is used as a 4-level preempt in either minor.


Winston

[whereagles]

In 1st and 2nd seat, gambling 3NT is rare, yes. But in 3rd and 4th seat it's more common, as you can do it with a side trick or two.

[Al_U_Card]

Especially playing NAMYATS, I like the use of the 3NT bid to cover the solid minor suit preempts. When I open 3D or 3C pard knows that it too is a preemptive bid with little or nothing outside, but the suit is not solid. He will only try for 3NT when he has Hx or some other suitable holding. This was the whole point of the bid (from a constructive point of view).

[keylime]

If you use NAMYATS then 3NT for a minor is great.

I tho use ACOL-style 3NT which is a "strong" gambling. I rather like it.

[Free]

I don't play Gambling. We use 3NT as a 4-level preempt in a minor, but it's not a completely solid suit (it's even a weaker suit than if we'd preempt on 3-level). We don't want to play 3NT most of the time.

Why we don't play gambling? When we have a hand for gambling 3NT, we hold a constructive opening in our system, so we open with 1♠ (showing ♦s) or 2♣ (guess what). Since we play NAMYATS, we can't show a 4-level preempt m, and since 3NT was still available, we put it there.

It's correct that 3NT wrongsides the contract, and 3♠ gambling is much better. But the problem is that 3♠ gambling is brown sticker convention, which you can't play everywhere...

[jdulmage]

We play it - hardly ever comes up.

[Elianna]

We have it on our card, but haven't played it. Mainly because when I had a hand that fit the description, I forgot to bid it!