[nickf]

Let me preced this by saying I have already contacted abuse@

Just played a 8 board IMP tourney.

My partner and I bid and raised [a s sui]t- the opponents were on their way to a club slam but cue bid [our suit] along the way.

Oops! This was passed out. Of course I butchered the defense to to only take this 4 off vulnerable.

The next hand was dealt then a message flashes on our screen - Bd 7 Score adjusted to [contract making for side that didn't bid it].

I thought this was a bit odd, so i tried to contact the Director. And guess what - he was the chook who had passed his partner's cue bid.

I suggested to this playing Director that he shouldnt be adjusting his bad results then in a cloud of smoke he [adjusted the next board too].

amazing stuff.

nickf
sydney

[Post edited by Inquiry, primarily to comply with BBF rules (too much info was here at first). Note: statements from Nick are factual, and this information is being acted on]

This post has been edited by inquiry: 2005-August-05, 08:56

[inquiry]

The policy is to let just about anyone who ask to be a director of free tourneyments get approval. The idea is to have plenty of directors so members can find a free event if they want. Unfortunately, occassionally people unsuited to be directors ask and are approved. When people have done things like this in the past, they have had their ability to run tourneys removed. Some have even been banned from the BBO gaming site. Reporting to abuse is clearly the right thing to do.

[pigpenz]

hehe thats a good one

[jw_nl]

I was playing in a tournament of this TD 2 weeks ago.
6 tables, 3 rounds of 2 boards.
Board 4: I was declarer and about 6+ minutes on the clock for 9 tricks to play.
Then oops, the round was finished and 3rd round starting.
I looked at the score and saw A-.
Then I looked at the clock : 7 minutes !!
I ask the TD to reset the clock to 16 min. No answer.
So 8 minutes for 2 boards. Enough to play board 5, but of course A- again for board 6.
30 seconds after 3rd round the TD left BBO.
On Myhands: Board 4: 3 tables A-- Board 6 : All 6 tables A--.
The TD won the tourney :)

[bearmum]

jw_nl, on Aug 6 2005, 04:56 AM, said:

I was playing in a tournament of this TD 2 weeks ago.
6 tables, 3 rounds of 2 boards.
Board 4: I was declarer and about 6+ minutes on the clock for 9 tricks to play.
Then oops, the round was finished and 3rd round starting.
I looked at the score and saw A-.
Then I looked at the clock : 7 minutes !!
I ask the TD to reset the clock to 16 min. No answer.
So 8 minutes for 2 boards. Enough to play board 5, but of course A- again for board 6.
30 seconds after 3rd round the TD left BBO.
On Myhands: Board 4: 3 tables A-- Board 6 : All 6 tables A--.
The TD won the tourney :)

Report this to abuse @ u know where too

[the hog]

rofl. Serves you right Nick. Anyway have fun with Richard next week and I hope the vugraph goes well.

Cheers
Ron, (as in later).

[spwdo]

incredible, this td violate like every rule there is to this site.

[candybar]

Here's another example of a really poor TD.

I entered a tournament this morning, and during an auction in the second round, a 2S bid was alerted, with 'no explanation available". I clicked the bid and the opponent instantly reclicked "no explanation available". This sequence was repeated several times, and I finally asked him to openly to explain or I would call the director. I clicked the bid again several times and each time he immediately clicked back with 'no explanation available". I called the director.

In front of the director, I asked the opponent to explain, and he replied "No".

The TD then (incorrectly but immediately so I know he didn't have time to ask) stated the bid was natural overcall, and I replied that the director is not allowed to explain a bid for a player and that I wanted the opponent's explanation. I even said if it was natural, just say so. He refused. The director then corrected his explanation of the bid to natural new suit.

The director insisted that rsz did not have to explain his bid and ordered me to play on. I told the director that I was entitled to an explanation from the player who had alerted, and he disconnected me from the tournament.

When are we going to set some standards for BBO TDs?

[helene_t]

Candybar, you should not assume TDs to be profesional.

If TD explains to u what opps call means, then I suppose u know what u wanna know.

[bearmum]

candybar, on Aug 14 2005, 01:06 AM, said:

Here's another example of a really poor TD.

I entered a tournament this morning, and during an auction in the second round, a 2S bid was alerted, with 'no explanation available".  I clicked the bid and the opponent instantly reclicked "no explanation available".  This sequence was repeated several times, and I finally asked him to openly to explain or I would call the director.  I clicked the bid again several times and each time he immediately clicked back with 'no explanation available".  I called the director.

In front of the director, I asked the opponent to explain, and he replied "No".

The TD then (incorrectly but immediately so I know he didn't have time to ask) stated the bid was natural overcall, and I replied that the director is not allowed to explain a bid for a player and that I wanted the opponent's explanation.  I even said if it was natural, just say so.  He refused.  The director then corrected his explanation of the bid to natural new suit.

The director insisted that rsz did not have to explain his bid and ordered me to play on.  I told the director that I was entitled to an explanation from the player who had alerted, and he disconnected me from the tournament.

When are we going to set some standards for BBO TDs?

ONCE AGAIN - please report to(including chat log ) to "abuse @ U KNOW WHERE"


I guess that inquiry will pick it up (cos I think he spends a HUGE amount of time reeading the boards but PLEASE report it so he doesn't have to read ALL the posts to realise that maybe there could be a problem with THIS particular director U quoted

As he said it is BBO policy to allow folks who want to direct FREE tourneys on BBO be allowed to do so (BRAVO BBO ) but I suppose if there are enough BAD director decisions reported to "u know where" that director might be advised to NOT direct -- or maybe told where to go to learn better directing skills

BTW -- although I have played duplicate bridge for ALMOST 40 years I would not want to direct -- and therefore I have a great respect for those who do

BUT I guess that ONLINE directing is somewhat different to f2f directing (where directors can't JUST say "I would like to direct a tourney at time 'xx.xx' on 'whatever day') --- but have to satisfy their national bridge federation that they are compentent TO be a director

[david_c]

to candybar: The TD did not deal with the alerting situation correctly, but it looks like you were at fault for being thrown out of the tournament. In particular, don't do this:

candybar, on Aug 13 2005, 01:06 PM, said:

I clicked the bid again several times

That is aggressive behaviour. And once the TD has made his decision, you have to accept it and continue playing. It's true that the TD shouldn't try to give an explanation himself, but if he thinks that's the best way to resolve the problem, then you just have to accept that and get on with the game.

[candybar]

helene_t, on Aug 13 2005, 07:46 AM, said:

Candybar, you should not assume TDs to be profesional.

If TD explains to u what opps call means, then I suppose u know what u wanna know.

My point is that TDs SHOULD be professional, even on BBO, maybe ESPECIALLY on BBO! What other bridge club in the entire world has several thousand people, of all levels, playing 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Of all places in the world, this is the one that MOST needs competent directors!

I did report this situation to abuse, complete with screenshots, and I'm sure they will deal with the specific individuals involved in whatever way they think best.

Also, you are mistaken that the TD should ever explain for a player. (1) The TD cannot know what the partnership agreements are, and (2) the TD is looking at all the hands and must certainly NOT reveal what he can see.

I posted here, because I want to continue to campaign for STANDARDS for BBO TDs.

The standards needed for online directors are not necessarily the same as for f2f. For example, in live bridge, a high percent of the director calls I receive are for leads out of turn, revokes, dropped cards, etc, which never happen online. An online director certification does not even need to include those Laws in detail.

On the other hand, alerts and explanations are extremely important online, where the huge variety of systems, partnership agreements, and high numbers of first-time partnerships and individual events make knowledge in that area crucial to a competent TD.

A director online needs to clearly and fully understand the alert procedure as well as the spirit of it, full disclosure rules, and the Laws about the violations of partnership agreements including psyches. S/he also needs to be more cognizant of abuse such as concealed agreements and potential cheating.

So instead of sticking our heads in the sand and saying "it's only online bridge", let's face up to the new paradigm and begin shaping it up, starting with standards for online directing.

[luis]

candybar, on Aug 13 2005, 12:06 PM, said:

Here's another example of a really poor TD.

I entered a tournament this morning, and during an auction in the second round, a 2S bid was alerted, with 'no explanation available". I clicked the bid and the opponent instantly reclicked "no explanation available". This sequence was repeated several times, and I finally asked him to openly to explain or I would call the director. I clicked the bid again several times and each time he immediately clicked back with 'no explanation available". I called the director.

In front of the director, I asked the opponent to explain, and he replied "No".

The TD then (incorrectly but immediately so I know he didn't have time to ask) stated the bid was natural overcall, and I replied that the director is not allowed to explain a bid for a player and that I wanted the opponent's explanation. I even said if it was natural, just say so. He refused. The director then corrected his explanation of the bid to natural new suit.

The director insisted that rsz did not have to explain his bid and ordered me to play on. I told the director that I was entitled to an explanation from the player who had alerted, and he disconnected me from the tournament.

When are we going to set some standards for BBO TDs?

Yuo are wrong, if they have no agreements about 2♠ he doesn't have to explain 2♠ the bid is unknown for you as it is for his pd so hi was right in not explaining you can't force a player to tell what he has. I guess he can report YOU to abuse for insisting and trying to force him to explain his own hand.

[luke warm]

i half way disagree with luis on this... part of the complaint was the td saying "it's a natural overcall"... i agree with candy that this is improper... i do think the 2S bidder *has* to answer a query, even if to say "no agreement".. if it was me and it was natural, i'd just say so

[Gerben42]

I think there is a difference between - not professional - and - doing completely ridiculous things that would annoy the hell out of everyone.

I am okay with having a newbie director, but this is just ridiculous!

[Walddk]

If 2♠ was natural, why did he alert it? Once he did, candybar is entitled to an explanation. Not complicated at all. Maybe the alert was a misclick, well fine, but let candybar know about it if he is interested in the alert. He was it appears.

Roland

[candybar]

luis, on Aug 13 2005, 10:54 AM, said:

Yuo are wrong, if they have no agreements about 2♠ he doesn't have to explain 2♠ the bid is unknown for you as it is for his pd so hi was right in not explaining you can't force a player to tell what he has. I guess he can report YOU to abuse for insisting and trying to force him to explain his own hand.

Of course he has to explain, even if the explanation is "No Agreement". However, if the bid was natural as I suspect it was, there is a default agreement by virtue of whatever system they were playing.

If I sit down with a brand new partner, and we agree SAYC, I open 1♣ and an opponent asks for an explanation, I may NOT answer "no agreement", because SAYC defines the bid, even if we never discussed it explicitly.

In addition, I remind you that the 2♠ bid was alerted.

[coyot]

1) If the 2♠ bid was alerted, then I would want the explanation as well. I mean, when I'm making a no-agreement natural bid, I don't alert it!

The only reasonable explanation of this alert is trying to trick opponents into lead-double or something like that...

2) Yes, I strongly agree that there should be some standards for TD quality. Let's have a TD "licence". Let's force the TDs to PROVE that they know the basic rules! We don't need babysitters that replace red players, TD is much more than this.

[sceptic]

As for setting standards for TD's online, do it and 90% of all the free tourneys would stop... who wants that? NOT ME

[luke warm]

sceptic, on Aug 13 2005, 02:16 PM, said:

As for setting standards for TD's online, do it and 90% of all the free tourneys would stop... who wants that? NOT ME

i'm sure i don't need to draw analogies to show where that logic seems flawed...