[Al_U_Card]

Scoring: MP

LHO opened 2S and partner bid 3H. RHO passed so I bid 3S. Pard now bid 3NT. Where to and how?

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I was once told to never lay down dummy with an 8 card side suit unless we were in 7NT.........

[FrancesHinden]

Was there a reason you didn't bid 4C over 3H?

[Al_U_Card]

My partner's history of erratic vulnerable overcalls, perhaps? We were in a club game vs weak opps and when my pard would bid 4H over the 4C I would be loathe to take him further......the q-bid seemed the best way to get us to at least the C slam if he had a 5 card suit.

I am really looking for a sequence that describes this hand and keeps the bidding reasonable, if 4C is the best way then so be it.

[coyot]

I believe that 3♠ is a good way how to establish a "strong" hand - so that when partner bids 3NT, your 4♣ will be seen as very strong. (Or, if he bids 4♥, 5♣ will serve the same purpose...

after 4♣, partner should feel obliged to bid 4♦ with the king, followed by 4♠ from you, definitively showing a shortness.

It will not be easy to arrive in 7♣ as you need either AK in hearts and K in diamonds or AKQJ in hearts to make - and I'm not sure if this is easy to find out... but if your agreements with p would be that 4♣ sets the trump suit, things would be easy with 4♠ being exclusion RKCB, with the possibility to ask for unbid kings close after that..

[bearmum]

Al_U_Card, on Jul 29 2005, 02:24 AM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: Both Scoring: MP

♠   ♥ xx ♦ AJx ♣ AKQxxxxx

LHO opened 2S and partner bid 3H. RHO passed so I bid 3S. Pard now bid 3NT. Where to and how?

I was once told to never lay down dummy with an 8 card side suit unless we were in 7NT.........

I will bid 4♣ (FORCING I believe) showing a powerful hand wanting to play in CLUBS rather than NT

[FrancesHinden]

If I cued 3S then pulled 3NT to 4C, my partner would take that as a cuebid for hearts. Basically, I play the cue bid as one of two hand types
i) heart support
ii) strong balanced(ish), doesn't have enough to bid 3NT

Type ii) would pass 3NT or raise to 4NT, so 4C shows type i).

With a club single-suiter, I bid clubs on the first round.
A 5C bid immediately shows less.
4C followed by 5C shows lots of clubs and slam interest. You are possibly a bit good for this.
4C followed by 6C says you were interested in a grand.
An immediate 6C doesn't suggest raising.

I would bid 4C over 3H, then if partner bid 4H I would bid 6C. If partner bid 4NT I would guess between 6NT and 6C.

[mike777]

6C over 3H.

Why confuse the heck out of partner? If they got a club and a spade stopper they can think of bidding 6nt at MP, otherwise I would think 6c is ok.

[luis]

IF I consider the "erratic history of pd bidding" I consider myself endplayed in the bidding so 6♣ would be my guess.
With a better pd I would have bid 4♣ before, 3♠ looks like heart support now that I didn't bid my suit before so 4♣ would be taken as a cuebid with hearts agreed and we won't get any useful information.

[Al_U_Card]

A 3 level vulnerable overcall SHOULD be a 6+ bagger, so I felt that I did have a trump fit of sorts....I will provide more hand info after a few more replies. I really appreciate the comments as it gives me a lot of insight into methods and meanings....

[mikeh]

Al_U_Card, on Jul 28 2005, 09:31 AM, said:

A 3 level vulnerable overcall SHOULD be a 6+ bagger, so I felt that  I did have a trump fit of sorts....I will provide more hand info after a few more replies.  I really appreciate the comments as it gives me a lot of insight into methods and meanings....

[QUOTE]

You certainly have a trump fit, but it is not in ♥

That ♣ suit is trump on this hand. As for notrump: forget it. Partner will think Kxx or QJx is a stopper: which it is, but it is also a loser (or two).

You should not waste too much effort bidding freaks, and if your partner is erratic, waste even less effort... the odds are too high that he will pass you in your careful, probing sequence.

I join with all those who dislike the cue-bid. Using the cue bid as an excuse to get by the first round of bidding is lazy... cue bids should be defined hands, when other bids are forcing. 4♣ is forcing... (I'd use the cue as either an attempt to get to 3N or as a general good hand hopng for a side fit (eg 3=2=4=4 with opening values+) or as a hand too good to raise to 4♥...if I bid 4♣ over 3N it would be slamming in ♥) but as said before, with an erratic, untrustworthy partner, why risk it.

You are never going to discover whether partner holds the right combination of top cards to make grand playable. So my advice is 6♣ over 3♥.

You may miss a grand, but you will be better off than playing 4♣ or hearing him 'correct' ♣ to ♥ at every level after a cue bid.

[coyot]

Another lesson learned, 4♣ forcing and 3♠ most likely with heart support, not the other way round .

[Al_U_Card]

Clubs broke 4-0 ( with S bidder)and H split 3-3.

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Pard felt his 3H (vul)overcall was ok. We have since discussed the contents of the thread and have reached agreement about the q-bid/immediate 4C bid at least....

btw, does an ELC takeout double make sense over the 2S bid, converting C to D if needed?

[whereagles]

mike777, on Jul 28 2005, 02:17 PM, said:

6C over 3H.

Why confuse the heck out of partner?

Agree. My kind of bidding on wierd hands

[Al_U_Card]

btw, the actual bidding was 2S-3H-p-3S-p-3N-p-6C-p-6D-p-6H-ppp. 6C was the spot, bid by 1/3 of the field with 1 finding 7H!.

[mike777]

whereagles, on Jul 28 2005, 12:42 PM, said:

mike777, on Jul 28 2005, 02:17 PM, said:

6C over 3H.

Why confuse the heck out of partner?

Agree. My kind of bidding on wierd hands

Upon reflection 6c may confuse partner as 'NEW MINOR FORCING" as per my bbo pickup partners.

[Blofeld]

Isn't 7♣ the spot, going down on the bad split?

I know I'd want to be in it.

[Al_U_Card]

Blofeld, on Jul 28 2005, 02:54 PM, said:

Isn't 7♣ the spot, going down on the bad split?

I know I'd want to be in it.

I swear it was in my heart until the auction lasted long enough for me to chicken out....

[Fluffy]

6♣ is a nice spot, at least is better than my 7NT

[Double !]

When I used to play competitively, my partners and I had the agreement that any really unusual or unexpected bid including a cue bid in an unclarified situation confirmed the last naturally bid suit by the partnership as being trumps (or at least showing the necessary support and strength to make it a viable trump suit. Using that principle, I think I might have initially responded 4C to 3H (if forcing: there's a lot to be said for just bashing this contract to 6C or something similar). At least I'm getting a reasonable result IMO. To anyone who bid and made 7H on this hand (nice that the jack/knave fell, I say "Mazel Tov!"

Is it me, or are significant number of posts and/or unfortunate results involving hands where someone pushed too much in an attempt to catch the wind and find the perfect contract? (I qualify this question with the understanding that there might be some recent bidding developments that I am not familiar with that permit discovery of the perfect cards. e.g.: some spiral scanning sequences.) Thanks for your understanding.

[mila85]

Partnes overcalls at 3rd level. It shoud be solid.
I have a lot of tricks and I have diamond and heard holding.
Question is: 6♣, 6♠, 7♣, 7♠ or 7nt?

Why use cue-bid, when you can bid natural 4c?

So I start with 4♣.
-If partner bids 4♠ I will use 5♥ exclusion BW. If we have all the aces, I bid 7♠. With one missing say 6♠. Missing ace and trumph queen I bid 6♣.
-If partner bids 4♥ I will say 4♠. She knows that I don't like her heard holding. But she can go on.
-If she say 5♣ I will bid 5♥. 5♠ now must show the ace. Play 7♣ if she has it or 6♣ if not.
I'm afraid that 7nt is unreachable.