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The definition of South's 3H (in response to North's 3D new minor forcing), is "3-5 clubs; 2-3 diamonds; 4 hearts; 2 spades; 18-19 HCP; 22- total points; partial stop in diamonds".
As we have sadly come to expect, this reveals for the Nth time just how BAD the GIBBO system is and just how BAD the GIB definitions are.
In the hopeless GIBBO system, it seems clear from this definition that if South has BOTH four hearts AND three spades, he is expected to bid three SPADES over the NMF. Note that I, South, DID have both four hearts and three spades, but I ignored the imbecilic definition that made it obvious that with that holding I "should" bid 3S. I ignored it because I was WELL aware of what a REMARKABLY STUPID way to play that is.
WHY is it remarkably stupid? Because IF I was SILLY enough to bid three SPADES as the unworkable JOKE of a GIBBO system prefers, North almost certainly would then have raised to 4S, his infinitesimally TINY little "brain" being absolutely THRILLED to have found his 5-3 spade fit.
BUT 4-4 fits tend to play BETTER than 5-3 fits, so if North happened to have BOTH five spades AND four hearts, I wanted to be in hearts (the 4-4) rather than spades (the 5-3). As it turned out, he DID have 5 spades and 4 hearts, so he raised to 4H, and I got my wish: playing in the 4-4 rather than the 5-3.
"Yeah, but what if he DIDN'T have four hearts?" ask the poor, deluded, ultra-naive apologists for and defenders of the execrable GIBBO robots (that is, if there is still ANYONE left ANYWHERE who is STILL so misguided and oblivious that they actually STILL defend GIBBO).
Well, Heaven FORBID that he lacked four hearts ("The horror! The horror!"). Guess what, o naive apologists and defenders of the indefensible: He would almost certainly then bid 3NT over my 3H and I could THEN convert to 4S anyway.
Does a 4-4 ALWAYS outperform a 5-3? Of course not. On many layouts, both will produce the same number of tricks. Once in a while, the 5-3 might even produce MORE tricks - but that is very rare. MOST of the time, if there is a disparity in the tricks produced, the 4-4 will outperform the 5-3.
As usual, the GIBBO JOKE of a system gets it backwards...and WRONG...which is not a surprise AT ALL. The system and the definitions are both unmitigated garbage.
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Benellis58 GIB bashing on repeat Groundhog Day
#1382
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,394
- Joined: 2022-July-07
Posted Yesterday, 07:09
Why the Hell is the ignorant TROUT in the North wasting time with his imbecilic 3D call when the CLEARLY obvious thing to do at this point in the auction is simply to raise to 3NT? Actually, mind you, a better question is: Why are these GIBBO pimples on the face of bridge STILL here and still polluting an otherwise excellent bridge site with their disgusting presence and laughable lack of ability for the game?
https://www.bridgeba...H9%7Cmc%7C11%7C
https://www.bridgeba...H9%7Cmc%7C11%7C
#1383
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,394
- Joined: 2022-July-07
Posted Yesterday, 07:35
Another in the ENDLESS list of examples of the MASSIVE worthlessness of the antiquated, illogical, and downright ridiculous GIBBO joke of a system:
On the auction in question, what would it have meant if South had bid 4NT over North's 4S?
Some ultra-modern space age bridge scientists might have some fabulous new system that I'm unaware of, but barring that, there are two and only two reasonable uses for 4NT by South at this point in this auction. I'm not talking about this random hand - I'm talking as a GENERAL interpretation for any and all hands where the auction begins this way.
One is KCB for clubs. South opened 1C and COULD have a good hand with long clubs...and his partner North has shown a VERY good hand and club support by cuebidding four SPADES...so South might well be contemplating slam sometimes and might well want to ask about keys.
The other is to have 4NT by South mean "Please PASS, partner. I HEARD your 4S bid, and I KNOW you have a good hand for clubs, but I think our BEST spot (now that you have prevented us from playing in THREE no trump) is 4NT, the highest scoring strain and a contract that will require 'only' 10 tricks to succeed".
Obviously, a good partnership should be prepared for this auction and should have an agreement on which of the above two LOGICAL treatments it prefers.
So...how do the always execrable GIBBO robots play it in their hopeless joke of a system? THEY (stupidly!) play that 4NT by South here would be...a QUANTITATIVE (!!!) invitation in...NO TRUMP! How the HELL can North know what to do with a QUANTITATIVE invitation when neither he NOR his partner South has announced anything even RESEMBLING a point range?
I play robot games every day, and EVERY day I see NEW examples of how devastatingly hopeless and illogical the GIBBO system, the GIB definitions, and the GIBBO robots are! EVERY day my total CONTEMPT for them increases, which I would have thought impossible, because even the first time I ever played with the disgusting misfits I realized that they were sickeningly bad, and even on that FIRST day I thought my contempt for them was unsurpassable. And yet it is CONSTANTLY surpassed, because EVERY day they not only repeat their longstanding lunacies, but they also STILL manage to introduce NEW ones!
They are the worst of the worst. They rot. They suck pumice.
https://www.bridgeba...D2%7Cmc%7C10%7C
On the auction in question, what would it have meant if South had bid 4NT over North's 4S?
Some ultra-modern space age bridge scientists might have some fabulous new system that I'm unaware of, but barring that, there are two and only two reasonable uses for 4NT by South at this point in this auction. I'm not talking about this random hand - I'm talking as a GENERAL interpretation for any and all hands where the auction begins this way.
One is KCB for clubs. South opened 1C and COULD have a good hand with long clubs...and his partner North has shown a VERY good hand and club support by cuebidding four SPADES...so South might well be contemplating slam sometimes and might well want to ask about keys.
The other is to have 4NT by South mean "Please PASS, partner. I HEARD your 4S bid, and I KNOW you have a good hand for clubs, but I think our BEST spot (now that you have prevented us from playing in THREE no trump) is 4NT, the highest scoring strain and a contract that will require 'only' 10 tricks to succeed".
Obviously, a good partnership should be prepared for this auction and should have an agreement on which of the above two LOGICAL treatments it prefers.
So...how do the always execrable GIBBO robots play it in their hopeless joke of a system? THEY (stupidly!) play that 4NT by South here would be...a QUANTITATIVE (!!!) invitation in...NO TRUMP! How the HELL can North know what to do with a QUANTITATIVE invitation when neither he NOR his partner South has announced anything even RESEMBLING a point range?
I play robot games every day, and EVERY day I see NEW examples of how devastatingly hopeless and illogical the GIBBO system, the GIB definitions, and the GIBBO robots are! EVERY day my total CONTEMPT for them increases, which I would have thought impossible, because even the first time I ever played with the disgusting misfits I realized that they were sickeningly bad, and even on that FIRST day I thought my contempt for them was unsurpassable. And yet it is CONSTANTLY surpassed, because EVERY day they not only repeat their longstanding lunacies, but they also STILL manage to introduce NEW ones!
They are the worst of the worst. They rot. They suck pumice.
https://www.bridgeba...D2%7Cmc%7C10%7C
#1384
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,394
- Joined: 2022-July-07
Posted Yesterday, 09:37
KNOWING that the reprehensible GIBBO robots are not only horrible bidders but also tend to be OVERbidders...AND knowing that they especially LOVE to jump foolishly, unscientifically, and UNILATERALLY to slams (particularly 6NT), I purposely UNDERbid at my first call in an attempt to head off an ALWAYS expected robotic lunacy before it even had a chance to arise.
Thus, with a full and good twenty-TWO HCP, I purposely opened "only" 2NT, which, according to the GIB definition, shows "20-21 HCP". Had we missed a game or slam, it would have been MY fault, but I was willing to take that chance to avert a disaster of getting too HIGH with the KNOWN madman sitting across from me.
We had an uninterrupted auction with all the room in the world, as the opponents passed throughout.
My ox bid 3S, minor suit Stayman. Had I been playing with a human partner, i would NOT have LIED by opening 2NT, because I TRUST my human partners, since my human partners (unlike the GIBBO dirtbags) are all GOOD players.
Had I been playing with a human partner and had we somehow reached this point in this auction playing the same hideous system as the GIBBO robots (meaning that guns were probably pointed at our heads FORCING us to play it!), for SURE it would have been automatic for me - with a TRUSTED human partner - to bid 4D, easily and honestly showing my four-card minor in answer to my TRUSTED partner's request.
Opposite the sickening lump of decay that I was actually playing with, though, I gave SERIOUS consideration to telling a LIE and DENYING a four-card minor by bidding 3NT over his 3S MSS call.
As it turns out, I SHOULD have lied to the piece of stinking garbage, as you'll soon see.
Unfortunately, I looked at my GREAT hand for diamonds and thought that even with the absolute buffoon I was playing with, it would probably be wise to answer honestly, because I could easily envision a possible slam. Thus, I bid an honest 4D.
Supertwit across from me now bid 4H, which, in their disaster of a system, was defined as "Shortness in hearts - 4+ clubs; 4+ diamonds; 1- heart; 4+ HCP; 5+ total points". The GIB definition was largely useless, as expected, but I figured that North very probably had a GOOD hand, because in my experience, he usually DOES have a GOOD hand when he begins with MSS and later shows shortness.
I actually wanted to now bid 4NT as KCB for diamonds, but as I recall, I checked the definition and saw that in their truly system it would NOT be KCB. (It's possible that I'm incorrect on that, because I didn't write down what 4NT would have been, but I THINK that I AM correct.)
Anyway, I have a FABULOUS hand for diamonds. Just for starters, I have twenty-TWO HCP, when I "promised"..."only" 20 or 21...so I have at LEAST one more point than partner is expecting, and definitely TWO more points than I could have had. But I also have QUALITY: Three of the five diamond keycards, PLUS the queen of diamonds. NO spade losers with AK dub. An excellent FIVE-card heart suit that might well provide a lot of tricks. The ONLY weakness is my K8 doubleton of clubs, but even THAT is not SO bad, because I will be declaring a diamond contract, so EVEN if the opponents have the club ace (which they might not) and EVEN if it's behind my king (which it might NOT be, EVEN if they have it), they will NOT be able to lead THROUGH it at trick one.
I have a GREAT hand for diamonds, but thanks to their HORRENDOUS system, I can't ask for keycards (if I remember correctly). I don't want to be like a disgusting slimeball GIBBO robot and make some unscientific, UNILATERAL guess about the contract or level, so it seems 100 % CLEAR to me that my best shot is 4S, a cuebid for diamonds. Over that, maybe my "partner" can ask for keys with 4NT, since I can't, thanks to their imbecilic and unworkable JOKE of a system (again, assuming that I am remembering correctly).
So, I bid 4D, and...the I.D.I.O.T. across from me...LEAPS...to SEVEN diamonds.
"Well," I very naively think, "this MUST be a claimer, because my hand could not possibly be any better."
WRONG-OLA! Because we...are MISSING the ACE of clubs. Down one. Luckily we have some company in this insane contract, so we at least salvage SOMETHING on the board, as we get 20 %. My "partner", for his leap to SEVEN, had 52, K, KJ10982, Q1074. Couldn't this WORLD-CLASS IMBECILE have checked for keys? Did he think he was being MACHO by leaping to SEVEN...WITHOUT asking for keys? Memo to "partner": Your bidding was not "macho" - it was STUPID and INDEFENSIBLE, you piece of unadulterated slime. As far as HE knew, we had a combined partnership total of "ONLY" 29 or 30 HCP. so we could EASILY have been missing TWO aces...or the ACE-KING of clubs, so we could EASILY have been down TWO just in TOP tricks! HE had no voids, and since I had opened two...NO TRUMP (!!!). he KNEW that I not only had no voids, but also had no singletons! And EVEN if we were not down one...or TWO...off the TOP, the grand might STILL have no play.
What was his "rationale" for his imbecilic leap to seven? Probably this: The (RIDICULOUS!) GIB definition of my 4S call was "Cue bid, 2-4 clubs; 4-5 diamonds; 2-5 hearts; 2-5 spades; 21- HCP; ace of spades; 26+ total points".
How the HELL could I POSSIBLY have "26+ total points" when, as far as my ox knew and as far as the GIB definition knew (thanks to the UNDERBID of 2NT that I had PURPOSELY made at the start to prevent EXACTLY this characteristic robot IDIOCY that ended up occurring anyway!), I had at MOST...at MOST (!!!) a "mere" twenty-ONE HCP? That would mean that to reach "26 total points", let alone the INSANE and IMPOSSIBLE "26 PLUS" (!!!) promised by the FANTASTICALLY STUPID GIB definition, I would have had to have at LEAST...FIVE points for distribution to add on to my base HCP of the 20 or 21 that GIB and my "partner" both "knew" that I had. I could NOT have 5 distribution points! I could have at MOST two, because given that my 2NT opener showed at least two cards in each suit, I could add NO points for voids and NO points for singletons. I could add at MOST two distribution points, and even then, ONLY if I had TWO doubletons (adding one distribution point for each doubleton). Thus, from the perspective of BOTH GIB and my "partner", I could have at the VERY most: a "mere" twenty-THREE "total" points...and that's IF I had 21 HCP (my max, as far as they knew, thanks to my PLANNED opening UNDERbid) AND if I ALSO had TWO doubletons. As far as THEY knew, I might have had "only" 20 HCP, and I might have had NO doubletons, so my "total" points might have been as "low" as TWENTY. But again, even if I had the MOST "total" points that I could POSSIBLY have from their perspective, it would be a "MERE" twenty-THREE...a full THREE (!) fewer than the MINIMUM promised in the IMPOSSIBLE (and impossibly STUPID!) GIB definition of 4S that "promised" not "just" 26 "total" points, but..."26 PLUS"!!!
The GIBBO system STINKS. The GIB definitions are the absolute worst that I have ever seen ANYWHERE...in ANY context. The GIBBO robots are absolute garbage of the worst kind. Why on Earth is this lunacy STILL blemishing BBO? Why does an otherwise excellent bridge site continue to use a MAJOR feature (perhaps the MOST IMPORTANT feature of all) on its platform when that KEY feature (the GIBBO robots, with their accompanying system and definitions) is so MASSIVELY and completely deficient in quality, reliability, and usefulness?
https://www.bridgeba...H3%7Cmc%7C12%7C
Thus, with a full and good twenty-TWO HCP, I purposely opened "only" 2NT, which, according to the GIB definition, shows "20-21 HCP". Had we missed a game or slam, it would have been MY fault, but I was willing to take that chance to avert a disaster of getting too HIGH with the KNOWN madman sitting across from me.
We had an uninterrupted auction with all the room in the world, as the opponents passed throughout.
My ox bid 3S, minor suit Stayman. Had I been playing with a human partner, i would NOT have LIED by opening 2NT, because I TRUST my human partners, since my human partners (unlike the GIBBO dirtbags) are all GOOD players.
Had I been playing with a human partner and had we somehow reached this point in this auction playing the same hideous system as the GIBBO robots (meaning that guns were probably pointed at our heads FORCING us to play it!), for SURE it would have been automatic for me - with a TRUSTED human partner - to bid 4D, easily and honestly showing my four-card minor in answer to my TRUSTED partner's request.
Opposite the sickening lump of decay that I was actually playing with, though, I gave SERIOUS consideration to telling a LIE and DENYING a four-card minor by bidding 3NT over his 3S MSS call.
As it turns out, I SHOULD have lied to the piece of stinking garbage, as you'll soon see.
Unfortunately, I looked at my GREAT hand for diamonds and thought that even with the absolute buffoon I was playing with, it would probably be wise to answer honestly, because I could easily envision a possible slam. Thus, I bid an honest 4D.
Supertwit across from me now bid 4H, which, in their disaster of a system, was defined as "Shortness in hearts - 4+ clubs; 4+ diamonds; 1- heart; 4+ HCP; 5+ total points". The GIB definition was largely useless, as expected, but I figured that North very probably had a GOOD hand, because in my experience, he usually DOES have a GOOD hand when he begins with MSS and later shows shortness.
I actually wanted to now bid 4NT as KCB for diamonds, but as I recall, I checked the definition and saw that in their truly system it would NOT be KCB. (It's possible that I'm incorrect on that, because I didn't write down what 4NT would have been, but I THINK that I AM correct.)
Anyway, I have a FABULOUS hand for diamonds. Just for starters, I have twenty-TWO HCP, when I "promised"..."only" 20 or 21...so I have at LEAST one more point than partner is expecting, and definitely TWO more points than I could have had. But I also have QUALITY: Three of the five diamond keycards, PLUS the queen of diamonds. NO spade losers with AK dub. An excellent FIVE-card heart suit that might well provide a lot of tricks. The ONLY weakness is my K8 doubleton of clubs, but even THAT is not SO bad, because I will be declaring a diamond contract, so EVEN if the opponents have the club ace (which they might not) and EVEN if it's behind my king (which it might NOT be, EVEN if they have it), they will NOT be able to lead THROUGH it at trick one.
I have a GREAT hand for diamonds, but thanks to their HORRENDOUS system, I can't ask for keycards (if I remember correctly). I don't want to be like a disgusting slimeball GIBBO robot and make some unscientific, UNILATERAL guess about the contract or level, so it seems 100 % CLEAR to me that my best shot is 4S, a cuebid for diamonds. Over that, maybe my "partner" can ask for keys with 4NT, since I can't, thanks to their imbecilic and unworkable JOKE of a system (again, assuming that I am remembering correctly).
So, I bid 4D, and...the I.D.I.O.T. across from me...LEAPS...to SEVEN diamonds.
"Well," I very naively think, "this MUST be a claimer, because my hand could not possibly be any better."
WRONG-OLA! Because we...are MISSING the ACE of clubs. Down one. Luckily we have some company in this insane contract, so we at least salvage SOMETHING on the board, as we get 20 %. My "partner", for his leap to SEVEN, had 52, K, KJ10982, Q1074. Couldn't this WORLD-CLASS IMBECILE have checked for keys? Did he think he was being MACHO by leaping to SEVEN...WITHOUT asking for keys? Memo to "partner": Your bidding was not "macho" - it was STUPID and INDEFENSIBLE, you piece of unadulterated slime. As far as HE knew, we had a combined partnership total of "ONLY" 29 or 30 HCP. so we could EASILY have been missing TWO aces...or the ACE-KING of clubs, so we could EASILY have been down TWO just in TOP tricks! HE had no voids, and since I had opened two...NO TRUMP (!!!). he KNEW that I not only had no voids, but also had no singletons! And EVEN if we were not down one...or TWO...off the TOP, the grand might STILL have no play.
What was his "rationale" for his imbecilic leap to seven? Probably this: The (RIDICULOUS!) GIB definition of my 4S call was "Cue bid, 2-4 clubs; 4-5 diamonds; 2-5 hearts; 2-5 spades; 21- HCP; ace of spades; 26+ total points".
How the HELL could I POSSIBLY have "26+ total points" when, as far as my ox knew and as far as the GIB definition knew (thanks to the UNDERBID of 2NT that I had PURPOSELY made at the start to prevent EXACTLY this characteristic robot IDIOCY that ended up occurring anyway!), I had at MOST...at MOST (!!!) a "mere" twenty-ONE HCP? That would mean that to reach "26 total points", let alone the INSANE and IMPOSSIBLE "26 PLUS" (!!!) promised by the FANTASTICALLY STUPID GIB definition, I would have had to have at LEAST...FIVE points for distribution to add on to my base HCP of the 20 or 21 that GIB and my "partner" both "knew" that I had. I could NOT have 5 distribution points! I could have at MOST two, because given that my 2NT opener showed at least two cards in each suit, I could add NO points for voids and NO points for singletons. I could add at MOST two distribution points, and even then, ONLY if I had TWO doubletons (adding one distribution point for each doubleton). Thus, from the perspective of BOTH GIB and my "partner", I could have at the VERY most: a "mere" twenty-THREE "total" points...and that's IF I had 21 HCP (my max, as far as they knew, thanks to my PLANNED opening UNDERbid) AND if I ALSO had TWO doubletons. As far as THEY knew, I might have had "only" 20 HCP, and I might have had NO doubletons, so my "total" points might have been as "low" as TWENTY. But again, even if I had the MOST "total" points that I could POSSIBLY have from their perspective, it would be a "MERE" twenty-THREE...a full THREE (!) fewer than the MINIMUM promised in the IMPOSSIBLE (and impossibly STUPID!) GIB definition of 4S that "promised" not "just" 26 "total" points, but..."26 PLUS"!!!
The GIBBO system STINKS. The GIB definitions are the absolute worst that I have ever seen ANYWHERE...in ANY context. The GIBBO robots are absolute garbage of the worst kind. Why on Earth is this lunacy STILL blemishing BBO? Why does an otherwise excellent bridge site continue to use a MAJOR feature (perhaps the MOST IMPORTANT feature of all) on its platform when that KEY feature (the GIBBO robots, with their accompanying system and definitions) is so MASSIVELY and completely deficient in quality, reliability, and usefulness?
https://www.bridgeba...H3%7Cmc%7C12%7C