[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     Pass  Pass
 Pass  1NT   2♣    Dbl
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

wondered about your thoughts on this overcall

[EricK]

It is very risky!

You are likely to be on lead against their contract so your bid has no lead directing gains. You have very little chance of making a contract opposite a passed hand (partner will need to supply 3 tricks). You might scare the opponents out of a failing 3NT into a making suit contract when they realise neither has a ♣ guard. And of course you risk being doubled and going down more than value of their NV game.

Eric

[Winstonm]

Pointless.

Good rule of thumb to overcall a NT opening. Count losers; subtract from 8; if answer is less than 2, pass.

[han]

Winstonm, on Jun 18 2005, 10:18 AM, said:

Good rule of thumb to overcall a NT opening.  Count losers; subtract from 8; if answer is less than 2, pass.

Hahaha, the Winstonm Rule: "count losers, add 5, substract 3 twice, and add 1. If the answer is at 7 or more, pass". A little shorter: pass with 7 losers or more!

More seriously: vulnerability plays an important rule.

[luke warm]

i'd pass because
1- it's imps
2- we're vulnerable
3- i'm on lead

[Winstonm]

Hannie, on Jun 18 2005, 10:58 AM, said:

Winstonm, on Jun 18 2005, 10:18 AM, said:

Good rule of thumb to overcall a NT opening.  Count losers; subtract from 8; if answer is less than 2, pass.

Hahaha, the Winstonm Rule: "count losers, add 5, substract 3 twice, and add 1. If the answer is at 7 or more, pass". A little shorter: pass with 7 losers or more!

More seriously: vulnerability plays an important rule.

You forgot the part about multiplying times pi.

[Double !]

luke warm, on Jun 18 2005, 11:03 AM, said:

i'd pass because
1- it's imps
2- we're vulnerable
3- i'm on lead

agree!

[MickyB]

Agree with Luke and Double, except I'm not quite sure why it is relevant that we are playing IMPs. Many seem to think that you should bid like crazy at MPs and pass like crazy at IMPs, but vulnerable it's often right to be more aggressive at IMPs than at MPs. Opps will happily double for one off at MPs, whereas at IMPs they will need more to make it worth trying to penalise you.

[pbleighton]

Agree with Pass.

Not vul, I would open 3C like a shot.

Peter

[luke warm]

MickyB, on Jun 18 2005, 03:28 PM, said:

I'm not quite sure why it is relevant that we are playing IMPs.

imagine you're playing rubber bridge, dime a point... would you risk -500 to keep opps from making +70? the odds don't favor it... same for imp odds... at matchpoints, if it turns out that 1nt is a bottom for you, it's only one board... it isn't the disaster it would be (or could be) at imps

[MickyB]

The opps are unlikely to find a double here unless they belong in game, your trumps are too good. Bidding on this hand is unlikely to be a disaster at IMPs, if pard is short in clubs 3NT will be rolling in due to your lack of entry, and if pard isn't short in clubs then you are happy to play there.

If a risk doesn't work out at MPs, yes it is only one board. If the risk does work out, it is still only one board

Actually, my arguments in my last post apply more to making close bids of 2♥ or above - they can double 2m contracts without the risk of it being game if it makes. The most common situation I see is people saying they would balance vul at MPs but not if they were vul at IMPs - turning -110 into +110 is worth almost as much as a NV game swing, and you are much less likely to have a disaster than at MPs.

[Free]

2♣ is a pointless bid imo. Ok, it's a pretty good suit, but that's it! You don't have a shortness, all honours from partner are in front of the 1NT opener (and they'll lead through them), we're V vs NV so penalties are coming our way, you might have taken them out of impossible contracts and go down yourself,...

[Fluffy]

obvious and absolutelly mandatory 2♣ bid at MP, at IMP you can just collect your -120 or risk, you cannot guess it all.

[the hog]

When you overcall, you do so for a reason, not just to make a noise. What does this overcall stand to gain? - do you have chances for a game, extremely remote? Is it lead directing? Well do you know your pd will be on lead? Is it dangerous? Yes highly. So no overcall.

Mind you I find Nth's pass very strange. North has an obvious 2H bid. (I assume the X was takeout).

[Winstonm]

Quote

obvious and absolutelly mandatory 2♣ bid at MP

MP? I thought we were talking bridge.

[JSilver]

MickyB, on Jun 18 2005, 09:08 PM, said:

The opps are unlikely to find a double here unless they belong in game, your trumps are too good. Bidding on this hand is unlikely to be a disaster at IMPs, if pard is short in clubs 3NT will be rolling in due to your lack of entry, and if pard isn't short in clubs then you are happy to play there.

I don't see it this way. If you look at the deal in question, 3NT should be down on a club lead. Meanwhile, adding a club to partner's hand won't save you from -500 when 3NT is even more likely to fail.

[paulg]

This is a reasonable example of the principle that it is better to "bid once, bid early" than to bid later when the opposition have started their discussion.

Despite the adverse vulnerability, I believe it is a lot better to open 3♣ than come in over 1NT. As others have said the upside of overcalling 2♣ is low although I think you are unlucky to be doubled when you have such a good suit.

I know many will disagree, and it does depend on your bidding style, but waiting for the perfect vulnerable preempt means you pass too many hands imo. Actually on this hand it is not inconceivable that 3♣ will get passed out.

Note I would advise passing this hand in second position - in first position the odds are 2:1 on opps have the good hand(s), in second it is 1:1 and partner may expect a bit more (although my partner would not so I'm still bidding it!).

Paul

[helene_t]

Agree with CardSharp.

Btw, I'm not so sure if you're on lead. South might have had a 5-card in a major and NS might not play transfers in competition.

[Fluffy]

3NT is an interesting contract in NS, with careful play it should make.

[the hog]

It looks to me that 3N is cold on whatever lead you make.