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Second Seat Four-Level Opening What would you need to open this hand 4H

#1 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 03:10

?x
A1098xxx
??x
x

Second Seat white vs red.

What do you need in spades and diamonds to make this a second seat 4♥ pre-empt?

What do you need to make this a 1♥ opening bid?

What is the most you would have for 3♥?

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#2 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 03:26

This suit is never going to be a 4H opening.

Give me an ace and a queen and I'll open this at the 1 level; ditch the ace and then I open it 3H
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#3 User is offline   guggie 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 03:29

4h in 2nd seat should be serious, we play them with some serious hopes to make it) so I would need A and AV in spades en diamonds, as the hearts will have 2 losers if p has no support. I need just a Hx and HBx to open 1heart (Ax and VBx also ok).
White vs red i open 3hearts with nothing else.
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#4 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 03:37

Give me AQ in ♦ and I'll open 4♥.
Less than that I'll open 3♥.

2 aces or AK and I'll open 1♥.
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#5 User is offline   hotShot 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 03:40

Nothing can make me preempt this at 4 level in any seat, the suit quality is not good enough.
If i fill your '?''s with A,AK the hand might be good enough for 4♥, but why should i preempt with that?
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#6 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 03:58

I also wouldn't open that suit 4H in second seat, whatever the rest of the hand.
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#7 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 04:38

Second seat pre-empts should first of all show a strong suit. This is not close to being strong. You may pursuade me to open 3♥ if I have nothing else or very litle on the side, but 4♥ is not on no matter what you give me in the side suits.

Either I open 1♥ (I have AQ in spades or diamonds as an example), or 3♥ (I don't have enough for a 1-level opening).

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#8 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 04:51

guggie, on Jun 15 2005, 11:29 AM, said:

4h in 2nd seat should be serious, we play them with some serious hopes to make it) so I would need A and AV in spades en diamonds, as the hearts will have 2 losers if p has no support. I need just a Hx and HBx to open 1heart (Ax and VBx also ok).

We seem to have Dutch card codes in the Forums now. Let me guess:

V = Queen
B = Jack

I believe A and K are the same. Here you have them in Danish:

E = Ace
K = King
D = Queen
B = Jack

Language lesson free of charge :rolleyes:

Roland
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#9 User is offline   guggie 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 06:48

OOoops
sure

and H=K

We dutch always go crazy playing with french cards were V=valet=jack, while we have V=vrouw=queen.
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#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 06:58

In second seat I Don't see any. In third ♦QJx would make me open.
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#11 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-June-15, 07:09

also no hand in 2nd seat for me. If i was 7-4 like, KQxx of diamonds I would do it but thats a totally different hand obviously :rolleyes:
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#12 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-June-15, 07:13

Walddk, on Jun 15 2005, 05:51 AM, said:

guggie, on Jun 15 2005, 11:29 AM, said:

4h in 2nd seat should be serious, we play them with some serious hopes to make it) so I would need A and AV in spades en diamonds, as the hearts will have 2 losers if p has no support. I need just a Hx and HBx to open 1heart (Ax and VBx also ok).

We seem to have Dutch card codes in the Forums now. Let me guess:

V = Queen
B = Jack

I believe A and K are the same. Here you have them in Danish:

E = Ace
K = King
D = Queen
B = Jack

Language lesson free of charge :rolleyes:

Roland

roland bringing up bad memories...

In the netherlands in a junior competition (i was actually playing against gerben) my partner ari and I were on our way to a grand. We were in keycard mode, and i had HVxx of trumps or something (H was king). I asked pard for the queen of trumps and my partner with ABxxx thought about it and decided he didnt have it so we stopped in 6. Well when dummy hit I obviously saw we had all 4 honors so I was like "why did you deny the queen?" and he was like "oh sorry...no wait" and then I'm like OMG... I HAVE IT lol. Very few bid this grand... it didnt matter anyways because or team finished very poorly in the event but ari and I were 2 imps away from winning the butler at the end. We definitely would have won it if this hadn't happened.

Now, if we were playing with JUST dutch cards the whole time, that would be fine I would have adjusted. But we were playing with dutch cards sometimes, and english cards sometimes...in the same match. Was frustrating B)

BTW: the English had a good way of remembering it... king henry queen victoria
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#13 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 08:09

Walddk, on Jun 15 2005, 12:51 PM, said:

Here you have them in Danish:

E = Ace
K = King
D = Queen
B = Jack

I have some Danish cards on which
Kn = Jack

(Kn mean "Knaegt" which is etymiologicaly the same as "knight". Nowadays, it's primarily a word used by fathers to adress their sons, but those playing cards are very old. It might have had some other meaning when the cards were printed. Notice that the original name for Jack is "Prince", as in Tarot).
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#14 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 08:22

I highly recommend reading Robson/Segal book on partnership bidding where it discusses the difference between preempts by SEAT and VUL. What the others said above is absolutely correct. A second seat preempt should be "by the book" normal preempt. The reason is simple. One opponent has passed, so your preempt might "preempt" your LHO, or it might preempt your partner. The chance teh good hand at the table is with your partner after first hand passed is the same as the chance the good hand is on your left.

Obviously in first seat, if there is a good hand, it is twice as likely to be with your opponents as with your partner. And if in the third seat, you can't "preempt" your partner, so a first seat and third seat preempt are quite different from a second seat one.

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#15 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2005-June-15, 16:35

I would like the ♥K in spades or diamonds to make this a 4♥ opening.

Eric
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#16 User is offline   keylime 

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  Posted 2005-June-15, 19:09

Needs one more card in hearts to counter the suit quality, with I'd say 4-5 nice controls.
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#17 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2005-June-16, 04:54

Quote

What do you need in diamonds to make this a second seat 4♥ pre-empt?


I would need the KQ of hearts mixed in with my diamonds. :D

WinstonM
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#18 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2005-June-16, 12:45

Seems that bidding judgement is more about what bid best describes my hand (or rather what will pard expect as a reasonable holding for my bid under the circumstances) and not how badly can I deform the requirements for what I want to bid so that I can make some noise and get some attention...... :rolleyes:
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#19 User is offline   PriorKnowledge 

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Posted 2005-June-16, 13:39

Winstonm, on Jun 16 2005, 06:54 AM, said:

Quote

What do you need in diamonds to make this a second seat 4♥ pre-empt?


I would need the KQ of hearts mixed in with my diamonds. :D

WinstonM

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#20 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2005-June-16, 16:17

PriorKnowledge, on Jun 16 2005, 07:39 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Jun 16 2005, 06:54 AM, said:

Quote

What do you need in diamonds to make this a second seat 4♥ pre-empt?


I would need the KQ of hearts mixed in with my diamonds. :D

WinstonM

PAWASAMBIAROTFLMAO

Hey! I made basically the same joke and got no response whatsoever.

Eric
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