[pbleighton]

I have heard of these as a use for jump shits playing 2/1.
1) I understand the requirements are a decent 6 card suit and invitational (but not game forcing) values. Is this right?
2) Do they deny support for partner's suit?
3) What do you think of them?

Peter

[hrothgar]

Playing 2/1 game forcing, there is some validity to using the auction
1D - 3C to show game invitational hands with long clubs.

I would not want to use this treatment any place else

[flytoox]

I personally dont like this idea. Using 1d-3c as invitational would be too wasterful and too dangerous in my opinion.
If you treat 1d-2c-2d-3c as not game forcing, then you can use this sequence to show this kind of hand. I quite like this solution. IN 2/1 sys, many play 1d-2c as game forcing, hence with invitational hand it is very difficult to handle.
Mike Lawrence's workbook on 2 over 1 has very detailed explanation about this. I think it deserves ur investment.
regards
hongjun

[inquiry]

Hi Peter,

I tried these sometime ago and then stopped playing them. Here are a few hints. Having said that, here are a few hints.

1) Only play them over 1H or 1S (not over 1C or 1D).

2) Don't have support for your partner's major since the bidding may well go 1M-Jump-all pass

3). Very narrowly define what you will have for the bid in terms of hcp and suit quality.

Problem with them are, you have too few hands that fall into the right category stregnth, suit quality and lack of support for partner. And you forgo preemptive jumpshifts or fit jumps (my preference).

Ben

[pbleighton]

Ben writes:
"...And you forgo preemptive jumpshifts or fit jumps (my preference)."

You may have answered my next question - what is your recommended use for jump shifts?

Fit jumps - they are game forcing, 4+ trumps, 5+ cards (or 4?), decent suit?

You then forego 1M-3M as a preempt, unless all invitational bids go through 1NT forcing?

Peter

[inquiry]

My fit jumps are not game forcing unless made to the four level. This is how I ten to play my fit jumps.....

1M - 3x = forcing to 3M only

1M - 4x = forcing to 4M, but not real good, since not 2/1 first.... (see edited note below).

1M - 2/1 - raise stronger than 1M-4x...

Direct raises are basically weak, and 1M-2NT is limit raise or better.....

Ben

EDITED NOTE. I have given up the 4 level jumpshift as a fit jump, going back to that being a splinter.... If I am good enough to force to game with the second suit, I simple bid it at the two level like everyone else now.

This post has been edited by inquiry: 2004-January-08, 14:33

[hrothgar]

Its very difficult to comment on what the "right" treatment is for responder's jump shift without more information about the the opening structure.

Ideally, the responder's jump shift needs to complement the both the structure of the opening bids and the rest of the constructive responses.

As a concrete example, playing a light opening system like MOSCITO, I prefer that responder's jump shift over a major suit opening shows game invitational values with precisely 3 card support for opener's major and 6+ cards in the bid suit. Opener is well positioned to either Pass, Bid Game, or drop dead in 3M.

In contrast, playing Acol I prefer Soloway type strong jump shifts.
Playing 2/1, I normally play some kind of extended Bergen treatment.

Quick note to Ben:

I'm surprised at the decision to forgo splinters.
This seems more important than using 1M - 4x as fit showing.

[inquiry]

I wrap normal splinters into the 2NT structure aka something called SMART raises... not sure exactly its origin, but it includes "max" splinters...think normal splinters...

Ben

EDITED NOTE: I dropped the SMART raises (played them primarily with papatgreek at BBO anyway).. don't think they were all that smart. Now use the 2NT as limit raise plus, double jumpshift as splinter.

This post has been edited by inquiry: 2004-January-08, 14:34