A very strange suit combination
#1
Posted 2005-April-07, 09:14
Qxx
K9xx
You need 2 tricks.
Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
#2
Posted 2005-April-07, 09:56
With 3-3 split you always have 2 tricks. So the 4-2's are the biggest problem I think. I think the best chance is low to the Q, and give one trick away (2 small ones). Then decide if you're going to finesse or not, when the Ace and Jack/Ten both have fallen.
#3
Posted 2005-April-07, 10:11
With 42 split, need to find a doubleton keycard.
I play low to the 9: if lose to Ten or J, I next lead to Qx, guessing whether 4th hand has Ax, but probably playing the Q (even if loses, I make 2 tricks with 33 split)
#4
Posted 2005-April-07, 10:41
I think this will break most splits except AJ108 with LHO
#5
Posted 2005-April-07, 10:43
#6
Posted 2005-April-07, 11:16
Low to king and back to Q. This picks up JEN - x on left and only loses to Ax on left. I even pick up A-Jen on left.
#7
Posted 2005-April-07, 11:24
#8
Posted 2005-April-07, 11:35
In order to really solve this problem you have to figure out all of the winning and losing cases for each of these lines.
Another question: What do you think the "intuitively correct play is"? In other words, if you had to make a play without thinking it through, what would you do?
So far all of the world class players I have asked have answered this question the same way.
Here are the possible plays:
1a. Lead low to the Q. If it loses to the A play the K next.
1b. Lead low to the Q. If it loses to the A play low to the 9 next.
2. Lead low to the K.
3a. Lead low to the 9, if it loses to the J/10, lead low to the K next.
3b. Lead low to the 9, if it loses to the J/10, lead low to the Q next.
4. Duck the first round completely unless either the 10 or J appears when you lead toward an honor. Guess which honor to leave toward on the 2nd round.
Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
#9
Posted 2005-April-07, 11:39
With this said and done, the odds of this working seem best if you start by ducking a round before doing anything else. FOr me, this is the "intuitive" way to play, since I haven't sat down and enumerated the different cases...
#10 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-April-07, 11:59
Tx
Jx
any 3
Axxx
JTxx
Jxxx
Txxx
The intuitive line (low to the queen then low to the 9 on teh way back if it won and if it didnt cash the king and lead up to 9x) picks up on your left:
Ax
Jx
Tx
any 3
Axxx
So the first line is better.
#11 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-April-07, 12:02
#12
Posted 2005-April-07, 12:31
#13
Posted 2005-April-07, 13:12
DrTodd13, on Apr 7 2005, 06:31 PM, said:
I agree that this combination is too complicated to figure out at the table, but I believe it is good for one's bridge skills to go to the effort to trying to figure these things out away from the table. By doing so you develop thinking patterns that will help make you a better "at the table" player.
The main reason I made this post is because I find the answer so strange (and so do all the really good players who I have talked to about this problem). When I told the answer to Michael Rosenberg (who is as good at these things as anyone in the world), he didn't believe me! Later he wrote down all of the winning and losing cases for various lines and agreed that I was right.
Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
#14
Posted 2005-April-07, 13:17
Jlall, on Apr 7 2005, 05:59 PM, said:
Tx
Jx
any 3
Axxx
JTxx
Jxxx
Txxx
The intuitive line (low to the queen then low to the 9 on teh way back if it won and if it didnt cash the king and lead up to 9x) picks up on your left:
Ax
Jx
Tx
any 3
Axxx
So the first line is better.
When I was shown this problem I was told that low to the K was the right play.
That seemed so weird to me (I, like everyone else, thought the right play had to start with low to the Q) so I thought about it some more.
After a while I figured it out. I (and presumably the person who showed me this problem) had made the same mistake as Justin. You can't pick up both:
J10xx
and
Jx/10x
on your left. Do you see why?
In any case, the above does not necessary imply the right answer is any specific line, but low to the K is not as good as it first appears.
Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
#15 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-April-07, 13:23
#16 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-April-07, 13:28
#17
Posted 2005-April-07, 14:17
Now thinking deeper about first fred's post I beleive first movement should be low from both sides since its the most antinatural, and althou it may fail on some 3-3 holdings it may be better on the rest.
#18
Posted 2005-April-07, 17:11
#19
Posted 2005-April-07, 17:56
luke warm, on Apr 8 2005, 12:11 AM, said:
I checked with suitplay now, and I'm impressed! I won't say why Nice suit combination Fred!
#20 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-April-07, 19:29
I think have it this time but this has taken me forever to figure out (longer than any other suit combo). If i dont have it right now, I give up but here goes:
Lead towards the 9. If rho sticks in the jack or ten, play the king and if lho ducks, duck a round next. If LHO wins the ace, play queen and towards teh 9.
If rho plays low, put in the 9 then lead low towards the king again (!) This line wins vs (with LHO):
Jxxx
Txxx
Ax
xx
JTxx
Axxx
any 3
Compared to the intuitive line this gains in the cases of lho having:
JTxx
Ax
xx
and loses to the cases of
Tx
Jx
JT