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Cheating Allegations

#101 User is offline   zasanya 

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Posted 2015-August-29, 23:48

When my sponsor informed me that he would like to include a certain player in our team I told him that in that case please drop me. If all pros form an association and unanimously decide they will not play if certain players are selected then things might improve?
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#102 User is offline   captyogi 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 00:05

View Poststeve2005, on 2015-August-29, 20:43, said:

While I have heard of someone using this method, it's because they got caught at it. people can come up with much more devious methods to cheat. remember even a small piece of information can make a big difference. you cant guarantee a 20-0 win but if you were doing that all the time your going to get caught


@ Steve, BB coming up in less than 1 month and with that Transnational attracting variety of mixed crowd from world over, Organizer need to seriously consider and take care about Method No.2 mentioned by me. Method No. 1 is possible only at your Home Ground.
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#103 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 00:06

Suzi Subeck just published a statement from the ACBL on BW.

Quote


Ethical Allegations ... brief statement from the ACBL President
by Suzi Subeck

As ACBL President, I have been asked to make a statement regarding the recent accusations of unethical behavior by a well-known expert pair. I am going to weigh my words carefully because ongoing ethics investigations within the ACBL, by their very nature, must be kept private until the charges are heard by an official committee and a verdict is rendered. Public accusations of cheating may result in a violation of the ACBL Code of Disciplinary Regulations.

The ACBL has been reviewing several allegations of unethical behavior at the highest levels since early this year. We have been aided by high level players who have volunteered countless hours researching and evaluating hands, looking for evidence of collusive cheating. We appreciate all the assistance we have received and will issue proper thanks in due time.

I am in the process of expanding and formalizing an expert review committee to assist us going forward. I initiated discussion of this with Larry Cohen (see his post for more information) prior to the NABC in Chicago. I am hopeful that this committee will become a permanent part of the ACBL Oversight structure.

Any player who has evidence of unethical behavior by another player should complete a player memo and submit the information to Sam Whitten, ACBL National Recorder. These reports are NOT being ignored and will be carefully considered. Multiple reports involving any one pair will trigger an investigation.

Please understand that saying more at this time should be unnecessary and would be careless.

Suzi



#104 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 00:25

I repeat my post expect:

1) investigation to take long time
2) hearing long time
3) numerous appeals long time

this all adds up to years...years..


at this point we are into year one or year two or year 3.....


Do not I repeat expect this to end in year zero.
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#105 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 06:32

The suspicious deals are mounting and mounting. Ish del Monte has just added a load on BW.

Now forget the "how". Others have said that we do not need this aspect to catch cheaters and I totally agree. But what I would like to see is some indication by the accusers of *what* information exactly is being transmitted. Some have said heart honours, club length etc but afaics they do not fit into all the examples (even where F-S are NS).

In fact some of the actions are so odd that you might believe they have knowledge of the travellers. So what info are they alleged to have? Perhaps further details will come in the QKA. I guess it is wait-and-see time.
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#106 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 06:58

View Postbroze, on 2015-August-30, 06:32, said:

The suspicious deals are mounting and mounting. Ish del Monte has just added a load on BW.

Now forget the "how". Others have said that we do not need this aspect to catch cheaters and I totally agree. But what I would like to see is some indication by the accusers of *what* information exactly is being transmitted. Some have said heart honours, club length etc but afaics they do not fit into all the examples (even where F-S are NS).

In fact some of the actions are so odd that you might believe they have knowledge of the travellers. So what info are they alleged to have? Perhaps further details will come in the QKA. I guess it is wait-and-see time.


They probably have the how too, all they want is to speed the process and wrap it up before F/S win anything else, now that they finally have delivered everything as required. I don't know this, I'm just speculating, but going by cherdano's theory, they wouldn't have done this unless...

#107 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 07:14

I would imagine they have the 'what', and a theory as to the 'how' but nothing definitive. Total speculation of course.
'In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion.' - Douglas Adams
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#108 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 08:21

View Postbroze, on 2015-August-30, 07:14, said:

I would imagine they have the 'what', and a theory as to the 'how' but nothing definitive. Total speculation of course.


Ah possible, didn't think of that. Wd explain all the "doesnt matter how" comments. We'll see what the Ace is at some point.

#109 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 08:27

View Postbroze, on 2015-August-30, 06:32, said:

The suspicious deals are mounting and mounting. Ish del Monte has just added a load on BW.

Again, the key for this to happen was for someone start and made a public proclaiming. If its an organization or a known individual it doesn't matter. I guess a nobody might not had been enough.
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#110 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 09:00

Presented without comment:

Board 3 Israel-England European Championships 2012

http://bridgewinners...artz/?cj=218998

(In particular, see Gold's comment a little further down that they did officially complain about this and other hands. This was in 2012.)
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#111 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 10:10

Note, the president of the ACBL has now posted a statement.

"I am in the process of expanding and formalizing an expert review committee to assist us going forward."

Great news. She says that "she initiated" discussions of this before chicago. Even if true, Boye's "grandstanding" has certainly sped up the process. He is doing a great job and change is happening because of him and his methods.

When the government won't do anything, protesting and civil disobedience combined with media sympathy and support is very powerful. That is what is happening here, and it's working. The point is more than just getting F-S, it is to make long lasting effective changes to get the next F-S, and the one after that, etc.
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#112 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 10:51

View PostPhantomSac, on 2015-August-30, 10:10, said:

When the government won't do anything, protesting and civil disobedience combined with media sympathy and support is very powerful. That is what is happening here, and it's working. The point is more than just getting F-S, it is to make long lasting effective changes to get the next F-S, and the one after that, etc.


Hi Justin,

I am glad that this is happening. Even so, it feels like closing the barn after the horse has bolted.

I still very much believe that the best way to deal with this issue is switching to an electronic playing environment.

This is the best way to have the comprehensive hand records needed to detect this type of chicanery.
It will also make it much more difficult to transmit illicit signals.

I understand that this type of move won't be popular, but I think that the number of large events that are being won by individuals who appear to be cheating indicates that change is necessary.
Alderaan delenda est
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#113 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 11:10

View Posthrothgar, on 2015-August-30, 10:51, said:

Hi Justin,

I am glad that this is happening. Even so, it feels like closing the barn after the horse has bolted.

I still very much believe that the best way to deal with this issue is switching to an electronic playing environment.

This is the best way to have the comprehensive hand records needed to detect this type of chicanery.
It will also make it much more difficult to transmit illicit signals.

I understand that this type of move won't be popular, but I think that the number of large events that are being won by individuals who appear to be cheating indicates that change is necessary.


Hey Richard,

You have been at the forefront of that movement for as long as I can remember, before all these scandals (possibly even when we started posting here, has it really been 11 or 12 years?).

It is certainly the best way to eliminate cheating. But in my opinion the cost is too high (as I think you know about me). I really enjoy sitting at the table, interacting, the psychology, needling etc. I actually just enjoy being around people, I think I am generally one of the more social pros at the table (I enjoy laughing, talking etc in general.)

I would be in favor of more effective ways of eliminating cheating that do not involve having to play in an electronic environment. None of those methods would be as good as an electronic environment for that goal ofc.

Anyways, I am only one person. If it goes that way it goes that way. I assume if most people want it it will go that way, this is no longer a fringe hrothgar idea it is something that many people are suggesting.
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#114 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 11:24

some of the actions I'm reading now are so beyond ridiculous you have to wonder why they weren't caught sooner :angry:
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#115 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 11:55

I found it very interesting that over 50% of the hands are way over my head. I mean if they did that against me at the table I'd have thot it's just normal, wouldn't even realize it.

#116 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 12:01

View Posteagles123, on 2015-August-30, 11:24, said:

some of the actions I'm reading now are so beyond ridiculous you have to wonder why they weren't caught sooner :angry:


And the facts are coming out that they were reported to the authorities with no action justifies (to me) the public approach that BB has taken to force their hand.

Well, I guess you could call it "action" when they are not invited to defend a stolen title.
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
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#117 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 12:07

View PostPhantomSac, on 2015-August-30, 11:10, said:

Hey Richard,

You have been at the forefront of that movement for as long as I can remember, before all these scandals (possibly even when we started posting here, has it really been 11 or 12 years?).



As I recall, I first started beating the horse back during the Tenerife scandal.

FWIW, I am starting to think that the record keeping might be more important than the physical separation.
I really admire the work that Boye, Kit, and the like are doing. One thing that is striking is how dependent this is on Vugraph records.

I can't help but believe that better record keeping would make life a whole lot better.

Who knows... Video technology is getting a lot better. Maybe something can be done if we have a video camera for every table, along with some software than can translate the video feed into a Portable Bridge Notation file or a vugraph feed.
Alderaan delenda est
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#118 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 12:53

Watch this

Qxx
void
AKQJTxxx
xx

Rho opens 1 and you pass!!!
Lho raises to 2
Rho raises to 4
And you pass again!!

Just to see you are making nothing and they are going down in 4 when pd holds something like KQT9 !!!

Reported by david Gold.

Let me tell you what, and I supported Richard (Hrothgar) in BW when he suggested the electronic playing environment. However most of the Brits, especially David Gold, is suspecting that they somehow getting the hand records. If a big IF, they are capable of hacking into hand dealing machine, playing in an electronic environment can be more dangerous. Not only for the alleged pair but anyone who has the skills to hack into computers. And if there are people who can hack into FBI files, I bet it is child game to hack into ACBL or WBF and get the hands and/or manipulate the deal machine to deal the hands they want or even enter themselves.

I think it will eventually be the only way to detect them manually by "peer juries" and "how they cheat, which info they send, what is their code" will not be the bar to set in order to come to a conviction.
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#119 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 13:03

Ladies and gentlemen, the pair with one of the most successful runs in the history of bridge:

https://www.anony.ws/image/DvYO
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#120 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 13:10

View Postcherdano, on 2015-August-30, 13:03, said:

Ladies and gentlemen, the pair with one of the most successful runs in the history of bridge:

https://www.anony.ws/image/DvYO


loled pretty hard, well done
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