[kgr]

Suppose you play Muiderberg and multi.
You agree with your partner that in 3th hand when not Vul against Vul you will gamble more after two passes. You can have less and more then normal. We want to make it difficult for the opps.
What 'gamble' would you play?
eg:
Muiderberg without the 4 card minor?
3 level preempt with 6 card?
multi with 13 HCP?
...
Or do you even gamble more? (I don't mean psychics, but systematic gambles in this position).
Do you also do it in other positions (eg. Non Vul vs Non Vul,...)?

[pbleighton]

In the 3rd seat not vulnerable, (whatever the opps vulnerability) I would:
1) Abandon Multi/Muiderberg, and use 2D as diamonds. Open 2D/2H/2S with 5 cards routinely, including 5332s.
2) Routinely bid at the 3 (and sometimes 4) level with 6 cards.

The risk/reward ratio is quite compelling in the 3rd seat not vulnerable

Peter

[david_c]

pbleighton, on Jan 22 2005, 08:05 AM, said:

In the 3rd seat not vulnerable, (whatever the opps vulnerability) I would:
1) Abandon Multi/Muiderberg, and use 2D as diamonds. Open 2D/2H/2S with 5 cards routinely, including 5332s.

I agree completely with this. I love playing multi + muiderberg in 1st and 2nd seat because it enables you to open a large number of hands with a pre-empt while still giving partner a chance to do the right thing if he has a good hand. In 3rd seat you don't need to worry about partner, and so a good system is one which allows you to pre-empt as much as possible. Undisciplined natural pre-empts are even better than multi + muiderberg in this respect.

[Double !]

Assuming that you are saying that your 3rd seat 2-bids could be either 5 or 6-baggers, that P is a passed hand, and that liberties are taken especially at favorable: I am curious about what kinds of agreements various members of the forum have with their partners regarding what types of action, if any, that the partner of the pre-emptive 3rd seat 2-bidder (a known passed hand) is permitted to take should the opponents take action and compete? I am also curious about how undisciplined you will go in terms of suit quality, and what assuptions your partner may make regarding your suit quality should he/she be so unfortunate as to be on lead against the opp's contract? I would appreciate feedback.

[pbleighton]

"Assuming that you are saying that your 3rd seat 2-bids could be either 5 or 6-baggers, that P is a passed hand, and that liberties are taken especially at favorable: I am curious about what kinds of agreements various members of the forum have with their partners regarding what types of action, if any, that the partner of the pre-emptive 3rd seat 2-bidder (a known passed hand) is permitted to take should the opponents take action and compete? I am also curious about how undisciplined you will go in terms of suit quality, and what assuptions your partner may make regarding your suit quality should he/she be so unfortunate as to be on lead against the opp's contract? I would appreciate feedback."

Good question.

When I bid 2S in the third seat NV, I am much more likely to have 5 than 6, especially as I will frequently (but not always) open 3S with 6. Therefore pd usually passes with 3 card support. However, at favorable with 3 card support and a singleton he can raise if he thinks game by the opps is likely.

Pd's discipline on this is crucial.

Suit quality per se is irrelevant (but I'll pass with ~10 hcp and a 5 card suit headed by the 10). In spite of this, when pd has bid a weak 2 and I am on lead I lead his suit, unless I have a better option. Not that it always works

See Partnership Bidding At Bridge (chapter 3, "Putting On The Pressure) by Robson/Segal. You can find at
http://www.geocities...neill_2000/sys/

I play 5 card weak 2s in the first and 2nd seat as well as the third (though with more selectivity), as a result of reading this book. Works well (though be prepared for some bad results), and is lots of fun.

Peter

[Free]

I rather like to open with 4+♥&4+♠ as well (more common and more efficient than ♦s). So why not use following:
2♦ = length in either M (disciplined in ♠, might be very poor in ♥)
2♥ = 44+ ♥-♠ (non forcing )
2♠ = undisciplined 2-opening in ♠

At this moment I play 3rd seat preempts as 5+ cards. Only ♠s don't qualify for this, but the other suits are allowed I've had some beatings, but I have even more gains. This however is a result of our system: we open all hands with 10+HCP, and most hands with at least two 4 card suits (only the minors). So we know partner can't have much if he passed Don't get me wrong, I don't open ALL 5 cards at 3-level, just when I feel it will be fine

[whereagles]

I open 3rd hand preempts with 0-15 hcp on a regular basis. My last was a 2D opener (all green) on:

AQxx
x
KJTxxx
Kx

Since we open on garbage hands 1st and 2nd NV, we can hardly miss out 4S here. Besides, if pard has the magic hand with a spade suit with diamond fit, he can go and look for the side fit with a 2H relay.

[Double !]

Peter:

Thank you for your response to my question or poll. I have been out of the tourney/ live bridge scene for eons, so I am curious to know how much tactics have changed over the years. My partnerships have usually had the agreement that 3rd seat heard partner's pass, was bidding for the partnership, and that the passed hand need have a good reason for taking action. Reasonable 3rd seat 5-baggers were very common. One of the reasons that I asked is that I have had many pick-up partners on bbo express displeasure when I've taken liberties in 3rd seat (especially white) after they didn't maintain such discipline and competed, and then a poor result ensued (and I had a decent 5-bagger). I almost never comment to pick-up partners about bidding, and have the agreement with my regular bbo partners that, unless immediacy is needed, that issues be discussed privately, not at the table. Again, I appreciate your response. Curious if others agree.

[pbleighton]

Double -

I'm more cautious with pickup partners, for
exactly the reason you give.

Peter