[dake50]

MrAce
This was the full deal. Of course it doesn't prove anything but
bidders would win this hand. Pass would probably lead to
either +50 -110/130 in 3♣, or +50 in 4♥
When i first posted this, results of poll surprised me,
it was overwhelmingly in favour of 3♠ and i
thought this was not such a clear decision.
Now i see passers caught and passed bidders.
Fwiw, i bid 3♠ at the table, but definetely not
advocating that it is correct to do so.

*** Now reopeners, do you try 3S after (3C) P (P) ??
or (3C) P (3H) ??
I would every time, with that shape and a passed hand (can't get partner excited).
Hoping a couple H-ruffs + a couple tricks from partner.
And knowing nothing in 3C hand during the play.

[JLOGIC]

I would bid 3S. We might have a game. They do not just rip 3S very often when you have QJT8xx, obviously +620 is way more likely than -800. Sometimes they are compelled to bid 5C since they're w/r and think they have a good save, but they are not compelled to do so when both opps pass. And most importantly, a lot of these hands where partner has a spade fit and raises us to 4S and we go down, they are making 3C anyways. I have had many comparisons on boards like this being in 4S down vs a partscore making when they passed at the other table.

There is huge upside even when it's a down 1 hand in that you might just make it on a lucky layout or a misdefense or you might induce a save and you are investing literally nothing for that upside when 3C is just making. And of course theres the upside of catching a good fitter with pard and just being cold.

Honest question, how often do you guys double p 3C 3S ?. How often do you get doubled there? Even with AK9xx of spades often one won't double since you have 2 small diamonds and fear they might run. And with AK222 of spades, you only have 2 trump tricks. And with AK9x they might pick up your trumps. I mean sometimes they just have the powerhouse and the trumps and they get you, but to think that that is more common than catching partner with the right fitting hand to make a game is really counter to what I think actually happens. I guess more possible is getting smacked when partner raises by some aces and kings on your left, but even then people don't double enough in that spot esp with their partner being w/r.

[billw55]

I didn't think people were mainly worried about 3♠ getting doubled. Rather, that partner will raise to four with many hands that are unsuitable, and *that* will get doubled.

[aguahombre]

billw55, on 2013-June-17, 06:16, said:

I didn't think people were mainly worried about 3♠ getting doubled. Rather, that partner will raise to four with many hands that are unsuitable, and *that* will get doubled.

And next time maybe partner not raising to four with suitable hands..for fear you hold this one. I think I refer to hope partner balances, and just take the good or the bad if she doesn't.

[gnasher]

I'm not very worried about being doubled at either 3♠ or 4♠. I just want +50 from 3♣ rather than -100 or -200 in 4♠. I know that means I'm betting that 3♣ will go down about three times more often than 4♠ will make, but think that's a pretty reasonable bet, given that partner didn't open and won't double 3♣ when it comes around to him.

[gwnn]

PhilKing, on 2013-June-15, 03:55, said:

What a turn-around - 3♠ was winning 8-1 in the poll when I first looked, but it has become a rout.

But now that JLOGIC weighed in, expect a comprehensive drubbing.

[MrAce]

cherdano, on 2013-June-15, 04:23, said:

But I have 12 hcp!

I am sure everyone here is capable of seeing Jxx and Qx side suits being far from carrying their full values. But eventhough i agree to downgrade thel value of ugly crumbled HCP, i do not think they have zero values.

But when i bid 3♠, i did not bid it because i have 12 hcps. When downgrading your ugly holdings, one should also upgrade the values which has positional advantage. My AQ ♣ is AK for me now fro example.

QJTxxx xxx xx AK if this hand is not good enough to make a 3♠ overcall for them, then i do not object to any of the passers. But if this hand is good enough to overcall 3♠ (for me it is) then i do not agree with those who passes with the original hand posted.

I would be more worried if my hand looked like AQTxxx KJx Kx xx, since all my side values seems extremely vulnerable due to being in front of the guy who is likely to hold values in these suits plus wide open xx suit in the preempt suit. I am sure most of the passers here would bid 3♠ with that. (so would i)

May surprise you but Justin was not the only top player who bid 3♠ with this when asked. Perhaps i should reply your sarcasm by sarcasm " OMG!!! I have Jxx and Qx suits!!! I pass !! "

[FrancesHinden]

I voted for bidding 3S before Justin posted (and before reading any of the posts).

I can see all the downsides, and am happy to argue to pros and cons of defending 3C vs partner raising to 4S too often, but those waiting for partner to protect are in a fairy tale. You have (relatively) short clubs and six spades. How likely is it you think a passed partner will find a protection?

[jdeegan]

3♠. wtp???