[jogs]

MrAce, on 2013-June-08, 12:29, said:

6 of 8 segment is about to be over and i see Kranyak playing 6♦ which makes after ♥A lead when Zia went down in 3NT.

Should Fleisher withdraw 2 sets to go if the gap is way too much, to save energy for USA2 match ?

They should stop playing total score. Treat each of the 8 segments as a separate game. First team to win 4 1/2 games wins the match.

[GreenMan]

JLOGIC, on 2013-June-08, 14:36, said:

You realize tehy could pick up 100 in 32 boards. Lol at the BBF and vugraph commentators who always expect a WD.

Sure they could; it's a matter of weighing the chance of winning vs. the chance of winning the USA2 playoff with an extra half-day of rest. IOW, how likely are you to score ~4 IMPs per board against a team that's been playing like world-beaters all week? Anything is possible, but few things are probable.

[aguahombre]

jogs, on 2013-June-08, 14:53, said:

They should stop playing total score. Treat each of the 8 segments as a separate game. First team to win 4 1/2 games wins the match.

Why fix what aint broken?

[jogs]

aguahombre, on 2013-June-08, 14:56, said:

Why fix what aint broken?

It's broken. Teams are forced to play 'bad(gambling)' bridge when way behind.

They don't play total score in the MLB, NBA or NHL.

[GreenMan]

jogs, on 2013-June-08, 14:58, said:

It's broken. Teams are forced to play 'bad(gambling)' bridge when way behind.

They don't play total score in the MLB, NBA or NHL.

Sure they do. They don't play by "innings" or "quarters" or "periods". Highest total point score at the end is the winner.

[JLOGIC]

GreenMan, on 2013-June-08, 14:55, said:

Sure they could; it's a matter of weighing the chance of winning vs. the chance of winning the USA2 playoff with an extra half-day of rest. IOW, how likely are you to score ~4 IMPs per board against a team that's been playing like world-beaters all week? Anything is possible, but few things are probable.

It's not half a day. They can resign with 15 boards to go if it goes badly (most likely). I would say their chances are 1 in 200. I don't think the extra 15 board rest will make them 1 in 200 more likely to win the next match personally. In general I think the public underestimates the chance of coming back 100 in 30 boards or w/e, and overestimates how much effect getting 15 boards of rest will gain.

[GreenMan]

JLOGIC, on 2013-June-08, 15:34, said:

It's not half a day. They can resign with 15 boards to go if it goes badly (most likely). I would say their chances are 1 in 200. I don't think the extra 15 board rest will make them 1 in 200 more likely to win the next match personally. In general I think the public underestimates the chance of coming back 100 in 30 boards or w/e, and overestimates how much effect getting 15 boards of rest will gain.

Point taken. But don't forget, everyone on Fleisher is twice your age, so rest may make a bigger difference for them.

[aguahombre]

JLOGIC, on 2013-June-08, 14:36, said:

You realize tehy could pick up 100 in 32 boards. Lol at the BBF and vugraph commentators who always expect a WD.

Mr. Ace acknowledged that the last couple of boards in the segment made his "if" moot. We were responding to "if" the gap did not narrow or expanded by the end of the segment. Of course, they should have continued at that state of the match.

I am on record against WD's for the most part, but as long as they are legal, a team should consider the advantages when there is repechage directly to a second BB spot.

[JLOGIC]

I'm sure they did

[dustinst22]

jogs, on 2013-June-08, 14:53, said:

They should stop playing total score. Treat each of the 8 segments as a separate game. First team to win 4 1/2 games wins the match.

Terrible idea imo.

Total points should produce the better team in the long run. Consider scenarios where one team destroys the other one in segments, then loses by a slim margin in others.

I think watching a team swing a bit to come back from a deficit adds rather than detracts from the game. Situational state of the match decisions makes the game more complex I think.

[dustinst22]

jogs, on 2013-June-08, 14:58, said:

It's broken. Teams are forced to play 'bad(gambling)' bridge when way behind.

They don't play total score in the MLB, NBA or NHL.

I think he's talking about series.

Difference of course is that in those sports you're always aware of the score so the entire strategy is based on making state of game decisions.

[chasetb]

Well, I was right about Kranyak qualifying, I just thought they would have been USA2. Now I just need Nickell to qual as well, and I think they will. It was surprising to see that Diamond withdrew after 60 - sure they were down 75, but with 30 boards to go there was a chance.

[Phil]

LOL@ a team within a playable range WDing because of rest.

Even if their odds are 100:0, clamping down and playing solid bridge can refresh you and give a team a little boost and momentum going into the repechage. Confidence is a lot more important than energy.

Energy and stamina aren't some zero sum game. You do well, you gain confidence. You get confident, you stay calm and focused and maintain your A game. You lose and there are drains.

PS the bridge yesterday was among the worst I have ever seen played at this level. It doesn't surprise me a bunch of young sharp guys are crushing. Wish JL and Hamman were playing late though.

[nige1]

chasetb, on 2013-June-08, 19:16, said:

Well, I was right about Kranyak qualifying, I just thought they would have been USA2. Now I just need Nickell to qual as well, and I think they will. It was surprising to see that Diamond withdrew after 60 - sure they were down 75, but with 30 boards to go there was a chance.

After they had expended all that time and effort, Diamond's withdrawal 30 boards from the end, seems weird. Teams have overcome larger deficits in fewer boards against teams who outclassed them on paper.

[GreenMan]

nige1, on 2013-June-08, 20:36, said:

After they had expended all that time and effort, Diamond's withdrawal 30 boards from the end, seems weird. Teams have overcome larger deficits in fewer boards against teams who outclassed them on paper.

They are also playing four-handed, so if one of them came down with something then they would have to withdraw. Or the fatigue might have caught up to them -- they're not all as young as Kranyak et al.

[jallerton]

How remote do a team's chances of winning have to be in order to concede? For most people, there's more to life than just bridge, so the answer is not purely based on the odds of being able to pull off an unlikely victory.

[FrancesHinden]

jallerton, on 2013-June-09, 03:09, said:

How remote do a team's chances of winning have to be in order to concede? For most people, there's more to life than just bridge, so the answer is not purely based on the odds of being able to pull off an unlikely victory.

It depends on the event.
It's one thing to concede a match if it means you can catch the last train home and the alternative is a night in a hotel and a day off work; but in the late stages of the trials to play in the bermuda bowl the odds are different. You are playing in the trials because you want to play in the BB.

[nige1]

Suppose you trail by so many imps that it is arithmetically impossible to win. Is there any rule against playing on for the free lesson and useful practice? Your team may also want to rub their noses in their mess

[FrancesHinden]

JLOGIC, on 2013-June-05, 19:16, said:

For the record, I know nothing about what their plans would be if they won, I'm pretty sure if someone brought it up they'd say they want to get to that point first lol. It would depend on who was available, and who was willing, and who the USBF would allow (EG if meckwell were available there is basically no chance that they would do it since they aren't getting paid, same with greco hampson. And if they tried to add fleisher-kamil or diamond-platnick imo that would be fine but the USBF might stop it since there would be money involved). My guess would be Hurd-Wooldridge but it's just an educated guess.

I found this mildly interesting. I know they are professionals and are generally paid to play, but in other sports the top players are usually not only happy but keen to play for their country in representative events (e.g. the Davis Cup & the Ryder Cup which are generally highly-paid professionals playing for their country/continent. Or the Olympics.). Why is bridge different? (Do the ACBL pay expenses for the BB? If not, I can see that would make a difference)

[cherdano]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-June-09, 06:55, said:

I found this mildly interesting. I know they are professionals and are generally paid to play, but in other sports the top players are usually not only happy but keen to play for their country in representative events (e.g. the Davis Cup & the Ryder Cup which are generally highly-paid professionals playing for their country/continent. Or the Olympics.). Why is bridge different? (Do the ACBL pay expenses for the BB? If not, I can see that would make a difference)

1. Roger Federer makes more money than Meckstroth, so he doesn't mind a week without pay as much.
2. Roger Federer makes more money from endorsement deals than from playing fees/prize money, and winning in the Davis Cup increases his market value. So it's not accurate to say that he has nothing to gain financially from playing there.
3. Bridge careers are a lot longer than tennis careers, so Meckstroth has played in more world championships than Federer will ever play Davis Cups.
4. Bridge is more random than tennis, and more random than people realize, so the world's best player has more to lose in reputation playing a bridge event than playing a tennis event.
5. As a matter of act, Federer is skipping this year's Davis Cup.

ETA:
6. Davis Cup isn't parallel to one of the most financially lucrative tennis tournaments of the year.