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USA Team Trials-2013

#1 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2013-June-01, 14:53

"The 2013 International Team Trials started Friday, May 31st in Orlando, Florida. Sixteen teams will be vying to represent the United States at the 2013 Bermuda Bowl in Bali, Indonesia, September 16-30, 2013.

Broadcast on BBO begins Saturday, June 1st, with the Round of 16, premiering a new vugraph feature: player details. When clicking the name of a player on vugraph a pop-up window will open with a picture of the player, a biography for those players who have supplied one, and links to the pair's USBF System Summary Form, ACBL convention card, NABC+ wins & seconds, and WBF record. We hope you will enjoy this. An excellent line-up of experts both for voice and written commentary will enhance the show with insightful analysis. To hear "voice commentary" please use the web version (go to www.bridgebase.com and click "Play Bridge Now" to log in).
•Teams
•Results
•Daily bulletins
Keep an eye on the News for more info from the USBC!"

To watch vugraph on your mobile device visit bridgebase.com/mobile, or download the BBO App
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#2 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2013-June-01, 17:41

+1 to USBF and BBO for the nifty player profiles and another gazillion for the live coverage.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#3 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2013-June-03, 06:46

We're recording some of the voice sessions. Here's Round of 16 - Segment 6 of 6, Blanchard vs Kranyak, with Larry Cohen, Josh Sher and Karen Allison on voice:





#4 User is offline   GreenMan 

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Posted 2013-June-03, 11:01

View Postdiana_eva, on 2013-June-03, 06:46, said:

We're recording some of the voice sessions. Here's Round of 16 - Segment 6 of 6, Blanchard vs Kranyak, with Larry Cohen, Josh Sher and Karen Allison on voice:


Oh, that's cool. I don't have time to watch/listen right now, but I love that it's available. Thanks!
If you put an accurate skill level in your profile, you get a bonus 5% extra finesses working. --johnu
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#5 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2013-June-03, 15:08

If the score was closer I think it would have been better.

Youtube is big wonderful, but since what goes on is just vugraph + text + audio it wouldn't be a bad idea to bradcast it from BBO with a new feature, that way you'd get the same, but might also jump to X board, see the results, click on alerted bids, etc.
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#6 User is offline   chasetb 

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Posted 2013-June-04, 23:50

This is a copy and paste job, but to bump this thread as well as to get a little discussion going, here are my comments about the Trials so far:

"Nickell has to be the best team, Levin-Weinstein was an upgrade over Zia-Hamman. I will go out on a small limb and say that Kranyak is the 2nd best team - John and Gavin have played quite a bit, and Bathurst-Dwyer are great players who know their Strong Club system.

And when team Kranyak makes USA 2, I hope that they can get Grue-Lall back as a partnership; with those two players, you have an incredibly young and talented team that can beat Monaco, Italy, and the Netherlands to win this year's Bermuda Bowl!"
"It's not enough to win the tricks that belong to you. Try also for some that belong to the opponents."

"Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself."

"One advantage of bad bidding is that you get practice at playing atrocious contracts."

-Alfred Sheinwold
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#7 User is offline   GreenMan 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 02:05

No disagreement here, though I'm less sanguine about Kranyak's chances of winning either spot, because they're playing four-handed. They're young and can probably handle the strain better than any other team, but it's still a serious hurdle (one that I'd be happy to see them clear).
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#8 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 13:10

Kranyak team obv very good but I think the spector team is being slept on ITT and is the second best team.

Would love to see Kranyak vs Grue final of the trials lol.

And let me whine about drawing the Kranyak team in the first round when they were like the 11 seed out of 14 teams lol.
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#9 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 13:13

Also props to the Kranyak team for having the guts to play 4 handed with no client in the trials when they are all full time bridge professionals. May not sound that tough but when it's your only source of income and you have families/babies, mortgages etc it can be hard to turn down reasonably big money to play the trials. Ofc the other side is it's great for their careers if they bink it and go to the bermuda bowl, but it's still a gamble and I hope it works out for them even though they beat us so obv I hate them :P
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#10 User is offline   chasetb 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 15:14

@Justin - The Spector team is really good, no doubt about that. I put them as my #3 team, with Fleisher as #4 and Diamond as #5. I agree that Spector probably are the 2nd best team per se, but from personally knowing/watching in person the Kranyak team and watching them this week on vugraph, I feel they have a date with destiny; like I said earlier however, they have to stay young and get you and Joe back together, that 2011 BB was something special.

This may sound blasphemous, but Kamil and Fleisher might be the best pair on that team. Zia, Chip Martel, Michael Rosenberg, and Chris Willenken are all great players, but as a partnership I don't feel either Zia-Chip or Rosen-ken have it yet. Also, Mike and Marty are the reigning Platinum Pairs winners, so that has to count for something.

I like the Diamond team immensely- Diamond-Platnik is solid and Hampson-Greco is amazing, but I hate them being 4-handed, and they haven't won a huge national event for a few years. I prefer them over Gordon, my #6 - the Gordon partnership, while good, is the really weak link on that team. I feel they bring Sontag-Berkowitz and to a lessor extent Pepsi-Seamon down.

And of course, my unlucky #7 team goes to (drum roll) team Blanchard. You guys could potentially move up to #5 atm, BUT you need to go with Team Lall, and you need to do it immediately (Team L.O.L is also acceptable).
"It's not enough to win the tricks that belong to you. Try also for some that belong to the opponents."

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#11 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 15:55

View PostGreenMan, on 2013-June-05, 02:05, said:

No disagreement here, though I'm less sanguine about Kranyak's chances of winning either spot, because they're playing four-handed. They're young and can probably handle the strain better than any other team, but it's still a serious hurdle (one that I'd be happy to see them clear).



It will be interesting if their less is more approach wins. If they will win by subtracting a pair. That they will gain more by in fact not adding a third pair.

I am guessing they are taking a barbell approach with 2 strong anchor pairs and that the gains will be huge compared to the side effects of not having a third pair.
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#12 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 16:53

View PostJLOGIC, on 2013-June-05, 13:13, said:

Also props to the Kranyak team for having the guts to play 4 handed with no client in the trials when they are all full time bridge professionals. May not sound that tough but when it's your only source of income and you have families/babies, mortgages etc it can be hard to turn down reasonably big money to play the trials. Ofc the other side is it's great for their careers if they bink it and go to the bermuda bowl, but it's still a gamble and I hope it works out for them even though they beat us so obv I hate them :P


The cynic in me wonders if they might have decided that the best way to make money is to win the event 4 handed, then auction off the right to be the 3rd pair to a client...
Alderaan delenda est
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#13 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 16:56

yes, I wonder if the ACBL/USBF would permit that.

I assume they have the final say on adding a pair.

As an ACBL member I would have no problem with them trying this option and seeing how it goes. Having options is a good thing.
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#14 User is offline   chasetb 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 18:05

The USBF mandates that any team with 4 people that qualifies MUST add a 3rd pair, subject to approval from them. I doubt that Kranyak, if and when they qualify, would add a sponsor pair, though I would bet if they asked for Kamil-Fleisher, they would be approved. Assuming that Kranyak and Nickell qualify, here are the pairs I would hope are considered. Note that I didn't include Lall-Hamman and Moss-Grue because I don't quite know how to judge Moss-Grue, and I REALLY, REALLY want to drive home the point that Lall-Grue is the partnership to add :
5. John Diamond - Brian Platnik
4. Marty Fleisher - Michael Kamil
3. Alan Sontag - David Berkowitz
2. Eric Greco - Geoff Hampson
1. Justin Lall - Joe Grue -> add Chip Martel as Coach, and Curtis Cheek as NPC, and holy cow!
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#15 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 19:16

View Posthrothgar, on 2013-June-05, 16:53, said:

The cynic in me wonders if they might have decided that the best way to make money is to win the event 4 handed, then auction off the right to be the 3rd pair to a client...


Does not work economically (100 % chance at a paycheck in the trials is much better than x% chance at a bermuda bowl paycheck even if x is unrealistically high). Also, it is very likely the USBF would not allow this, there would definitely be an outcry and a long BBF thread :P

Also, you can just take my word for it that this wasn't the thought process heh. I mean part of it is definitely that their market value will go up with a great showing here for future big events but it's still a gamble on believing in themselves which is pretty awesome imo.

Chase, your dream is not going to be a reality even if they happen to win heh. Pretty sure if they were going to go a route like Joe and me they would go with Joel and Johnny as it's a similar idea and they're actually a long time partnership. But thanks for the support!

For the record, I know nothing about what their plans would be if they won, I'm pretty sure if someone brought it up they'd say they want to get to that point first lol. It would depend on who was available, and who was willing, and who the USBF would allow (EG if meckwell were available there is basically no chance that they would do it since they aren't getting paid, same with greco hampson. And if they tried to add fleisher-kamil or diamond-platnick imo that would be fine but the USBF might stop it since there would be money involved). My guess would be Hurd-Wooldridge but it's just an educated guess.
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#16 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 20:09

As an ACBL member I would hope they would not stop it if they choose to auction off a third pair.

I want them to have this option.

If you win an open trials team with 4 you have the option to get rich from private money. You have the option of fame or fortune. If winter is coming and the baby needs shoes...ok.

Of course you choose to live with all the comments on bbo forums.
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#17 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 21:36

It's an interesting question. Take two hypotheticals, one in which a relative newcomer to bridge but a huge enthusiast offers them 1 million each to join the team, obviously they'd want to take it and it should be stopped (right?). The other, lets say meckwell were very rich and were clients and paid people to play, even though they are clients they are still great and it shouldn't be stopped (right?).

So where do you draw the line? And how? If it's subjective on how good a pair is, then I'd argue there is a tendency to underrate and downplay the skill of people who are clients. I'm not sure why this is, but I suspect a lot of it is people feeling that if they could hire levin/weinstein and meckwell, they would win all the events also.

If it's on merit of achievements then I don't see how one could disallow the addition of say, Nickell/Katz. The list above lists two client pairs, one of whom one the Plat pairs and one of whom won the last blue ribs. I mean, jeez, Fleisher is leading player of the year and player of the decade. IMO disallowing the addition of them is just a bias against clients, those pairs are very good. But people will view it as unfair, or bad for USA, or someone being allowed to buy themselves in etc. The politics of it all are very bad.

And it's funny because the very best pro pairs would not join the bermuda bowl team for free, they would take a big paycheck for the transnationals. I know I've said it many times before, but professionalism is very good for US bridge at the top level, it is the reason that the best players can be so good. And all of the US teams that do well have a very strong sponsor, that is the reason those teams do so well, those guys are not just being carried while playing awfully. It creates this weird dynamic where if a pair like fleisher/kamil did not have a sponsor in it and were chosen to be added, no one would say anything. No one would say they are not good enough or whatever. But because one of them was successful and happens to be a sponsor, there would be a huge uproar.

To me the only way to do it is based on merit. If someone has performed very well at the high levels, whether a client or not they should be added. This is based on my view that it is impossible to do well at nationals and the US trials consistently without being a very good player. There are many instances of weak clients who hire high powered teams for a long time and almost never do well in a major event, that shows that everyone on the team has to be good to do well. It's not a coincedence that the Zagorins and Wellands and Fleishers and Diamonds and Nickels are always up there, they earn it.
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#18 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 22:20

So where do you draw the line


no line ok I am from Chicago...no Richard speck.....

no merit..no line.

'but a huge enthusiast offers them 1 million each to join the team, obviously they'd want to take it'


Justin this is a good option...not a poor one.

I argue to try this...trial and error.

Let the team of 4 choose....fame or fortune.
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#19 User is offline   GreenMan 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 22:30

I don't know how big a factor this would be, since I'm an outsider, but if Kranyak were to add Fleisher-Kamil then the rest of Fleisher's team, Zia-Martel and Rosenberg-Willenken, would be without a sponsor for the Transnationals. That seems as if it would rub a lot of people the wrong way.

EDIT: Fixed a brain-o.
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#20 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2013-June-05, 22:38

View PostGreenMan, on 2013-June-05, 22:30, said:

I don't know how big a factor this would be, since I'm an outsider, but if Kranyak were to add Fleisher-Kamil then the rest of Fleisher's team, Zia-Stansby and Rosenberg-Willenken, would be without a sponsor for the Transnationals. That seems as if it would rub a lot of people the wrong way.



your Fleisher team/pairs really does rub many of us the wrong way......think about it

your pairs just seem off for some reason......but I am old.
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