[HeartA]

Scoring: IMP

East opens 1H, what would you do? dbl or 2C?

---

[whereagles]

Double. I wouldn't like if it went

1H 2C 3H p
p....??

or

1H 2C 2H p
3H..??

[inquiry]

What I would like to bid is a polish (raptor) 1NT.. if you will not let me, or if my partner doesn't play it, I will bid 2♣.

[whereagles]

Raptor freak... lol.

[junyi_zhu]

HeartA, on Dec 14 2004, 07:17 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

East opens 1H, what would you do? dbl or 2C?

---

1S if you have partnership agreement to overcall shorter spades.

[inquiry]

whereagles, on Dec 14 2004, 03:36 PM, said:

Double. I wouldn't like if it went

1H 2C 3H p
p....??

or

1H 2C 2H p
3H..??

I wouldn't mind it if it went that way. This hand is clearly strong enough now to double for takeout. It puts the emphasis on the clubs and spades here, with much better clubs.

Of course, us raptor freaks have to put in a word fro our system here (1H-1NT-2/3H)...where partner can with both minors compete over these bids with some values by bidding ♣s as pass/correct, and with spades, knows it is safe to bid spades. And if parnter passes 2/3H, I can now double for take out or bid clubs, knowing we will not miss a spade fit if we have it.

[hrothgar]

HeartA, on Dec 14 2004, 10:17 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

East opens 1H, what would you do? dbl or 2C?

---

easy 2♣ bid

[pclayton]

2♠; showing ♠ + ♣; equal or longer ♣ and 5-7 AKQ losers.

Not playing OS, I'm stuck with 2♣. I'd like a little more to make an offshape dbl.

[whereagles]

inquiry, on Dec 14 2004, 09:10 PM, said:

whereagles, on Dec 14 2004, 03:36 PM, said:

Double. I wouldn't like if it went

1H 2C 3H p
p....??

or

1H 2C 2H p
3H..??

I wouldn't mind it if it went that way. This hand is clearly strong enough now to double for takeout. It puts the emphasis on the clubs and spades here, with much better clubs.

True. However, double would make it easier for pard to bid spades straight away (especially important if they bid up to 4H). It would also make it easier for pard to overbid in diamonds, though

By the way, what would it be if you balance

1H 2C 3H p
p...3S

Not playing raptor it could be an offensive 6-4 (say KQJx x xx KQJxxx) or 6-5 with wimpy spades. But how about if you're playing raptor?

[HeartA]

I forgot to mention that I was playing with a pick-up pd, who claimed herself as "World Class". We had only played 10 to 20 boards. No gadgets (like raptor, I don't play it anyway) were discussed, except "standard" conventions. This is her holding.

The actual bidding went:

East South West North(me)
1♥ dbl 2♥ 3♥
4♥ pass pass dbl
pass 5♣ pass 5♦

I had ♠KJx, ♥Axx, ♦xxxxx, ♣KT. I corrected 5C to 5D, thinking her hands should be 5-4-3-1 (5♣) or so. The other table played 4S and made 11 tricks. 5C was perfect while 5D went down 2. Who was to blame, and percentage?

[han]

I played raptor for a while, but this kind of hand didn't come up during this time. What did come up was the strong notrump, several times. We fairly quickly decided to give up on raptor.

It sure would be nice to have it available now. Otherwise I'd bid 2C.

[inquiry]

Hannie, on Dec 14 2004, 05:51 PM, said:

I played raptor for a while, but this kind of hand didn't come up during this time. What did come up was the strong notrump, several times. We fairly quickly decided to give up on raptor.

It sure would be nice to have it available now. Otherwise I'd bid 2C.

The problem hand with raptor is the balanced 15 to 17. You have to double and then rebid NT. This can be a big problem if your partner is going to leap to four spades over your takeout double of, say 1H, on a hand that would naturally bid 1NT without lots of spades.

This is one reason why I like the ETM Victory response scale to takeout double. Partner will jump to the two level only with five card suit and basically 6 to 10 points. But I like this response schedule without raptor as well.

As far as raptor not coming up, here I think you are wrong. Everytime you overcall two of a minor, Raptor came up. Sure, you didn't bid 1NT, but guess what. You will not have four cards in a major when you make this minor bid. This is part of the raptor convention as well... THAT is when you don't use the bid, you still convey important information to partner and opponent.

Take the hand in this thread for example.. if you were playing raptor, that would put a huge spin on the entire auction, including the 4♥ bid. If raptor was just 1NT with major-and-longer-minor it would hardly be worth playing. Butafter your 1NT overcall, your partner can apply a lot of pressure if he can make a paradox raise.. consider...

(1D)-1NT-(dbl)-3S

Where 3S is spades with club support, or...

(1D)-1NT-(dbl)-3H

Where 3H is hearts with either spades or club support... you might play 3H, if opener passes. I have even passed this bid when holidng weak hand and the black suits not vul... IF nothing else, this stuff is fun.. and it is really fun over their strong 1♣ auctions, where my 1S shows spade and a minor and my 1NT shows hearts and minor.

Ben

ben

[scoob]

HeartA, on Dec 14 2004, 01:17 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

East opens 1H, what would you do? dbl or 2C?

---

Double

[Free]

2♣, and bid ♠ afterwards. Otherwise I'll probably be unable to show my hand properly...

[Fluffy]

I find doubling with this hand kinda horrible, but also introducing a xxxxx suit at the 5 level is worng.

[cf_John0]

Agree with those who dbl.

[the hog]

Agree with those who bid 2C.

[bearmum]

2♣

[vang]

as junyi_zhu suggested, 1S might be an option. i choose 2C, but i remember Marshall Miles is a strong believer in this kind of (1S) overcall. see first chapter in book "Competitive Bidding in the 21st Century ".