[jillybean]

Does anyone have a good link to an introduction to Multi2♦?

I have started reading this.. http://www.bridgehan...-2_Diamonds.htm

[kgr]

I play 2D multi.
For agreements that I have with my partner see:
- web site in signature in this post
- click "My system"
- select "disable undefined bids" (deselect competitive & they open)
- select 2D

For our defense against 2D multi:
- click "Opps open multi 2C/2D"
- select "disable undefined bids", "competitive" & "they open"
- select 2D

(Undo does not always work correctly, use Reset if undo runs into problems. I'll correct that when I've more time).

[jillybean]

Thanks! I am told that some experts have dropped the strong aspect of Multi and use it only for preemptive majors hands, sounds like a bad idea but
what do I know.

[hrothgar]

jillybean, on 2012-December-09, 13:21, said:

Thanks! I am told that some experts have dropped the strong aspect of Multi and use it only for preemptive majors hands, sounds like a bad idea but
what do I know.

Hi Kathryn

Removing all of the strong hands from the multi 2D has a number of advantages

1. Your response structure is a lot simpler
2. Advancer has the option to pass the 2D opening which puts much more pressure on the opponents

Balanced against this, you don't have the ability to offload the strong Roman and strong 2NT hand types from the rest of your opening system.

I personally find the weak only multi (sometimes called a "Wagner 2D") preferable.

[jillybean]

Hi Richard

It seems that the Wagner 2D loses any preemptive advantage you have with a weak major and no gain because the opponents
know that you hold a weak major and not one of the other types.

2D (P) 2H vs.

2M (P) 3/4M

[hrothgar]

jillybean, on 2012-December-09, 14:01, said:

Hi Richard

It seems that the Wagner 2D loses any preemptive advantage you have with a weak major and no gain because the opponents
know that you hold a weak major and not one of the other types.

2D (P) 2H vs.

2M (P) 3/4M

No one I know plays the a multi/wagner 2D because they believe that it is more obstructive to open 2D with a 6 card major. Rather, they believe that the losses that they incur from the 2D opening are compensated by the advantages that they get from various alternative uses for the 2H and 2S opening bids. If you don't have a really compelling alternative use for the 2M openings, you probably don't want to play a multi (unless, of course, you want to get more experience with the opening so you can better defend against it)

[jillybean]

The main reason I want to learn Multi is to be better equipped to defend against it, unfortunately it would be illegal at the club or tournaments
but maybe I could use it. We will try it when we play on BBO.

So, if you are playing Multi what do you use the 2H/S bids for? invitational in the major, distributional 2 suited hands ? I'd like a bid to show a weak 65 type hand.

[hrothgar]

jillybean, on 2012-December-09, 16:33, said:

So, if you are playing Multi what do you use the 2H/S bids for? invitational in the major, distributional 2 suited hands ? I'd like a bid to show a weak 65 type hand.

From what I can tell, the most typical uses are either

1. Showing two different types of 2M openings (disciplined opening get opened 2M, undisciplined are shoved into the multi)
2. Muiderberg (2M = 5 card major with a 4+ card minor)
3. 2H = 4+/4+ in the majors and 2S = Muiderberg

I doubt that a 6/5 hand pattern is frequent enough to be of any use

I normally play Muiderberg when I am using a multi.

[RunemPard]

Some of the most common uses of 2H/2S with a multi in Sweden are some sort of intermediate 6 card major hand. Like...10-13 or 11-14 6H/6S. When I use a multi, I typically play 11-14 (hcp+dist)(upgrade/downgrade) to take some stress off of the multi range. This makes the weak multi opening occur less often, and when it does it typically shows a garbage hand just trying to eat up some space.

[SteveMoe]

Kathryn,
There's a good discussion in a parallel post about the merits of Multi on the BBOF. Is the Muliti 2D worth it?. Like everything else the nuggets are buried but worth looking for.

Playing M2D and dealing with their defense is the topic of this post by Kit Woolsey on BridgeWinners: Inferential Shortness

The approved ACBL defenses are good to know too: ACBL Defense to M2D. I like option 2.

Seems that there's a lot of tailoring about what M2D does and does not cover:
Weak 2{Hearts] & Weak 2{spades] appear common.

Strong vairiants might include one or more of these:
Strong Balanced Hand [range varies]
Strong Acol Minor suit hand (8.5+ winners)
Strong 4441 hand

Good Luck!

[Mbodell]

If you really want to learn about it there is a master point press book from 2010 called:

The Mysterious Multi: How To Play It, How To Play Against It

by Mark Horton and Jan van Cleeff

book link

It not just covers how to play it, some more advanced conventions for both weak only and strong and weak multi, but also covers alternative uses for 2M. And also how to play against it, which sounds like you'd like to see.

I was able to play multi 2♦ at club games near me in the ACBL, as folks have a fairly permissive attitude. But not a regionals, or official ACBL events (STAC, NAP, GNT). Some sectionals I could play it, but then when it was moved to mid chart-6 most sectional pairs games don't allow it now.

[the hog]

jillybean, on 2012-December-09, 14:01, said:

Hi Richard

It seems that the Wagner 2D loses any preemptive advantage you have with a weak major and no gain because the opponents
know that you hold a weak major and not one of the other types.

2D (P) 2H vs.

2M (P) 3/4M

Ah yes, but you have forgotten the fact that this 2D is not forcing. Responder can pass it with a weak hand and long Ds. (And sometimes not so long ds if NV vs Vul). This puts a lot more pressure on the opponents. I think the weak only 2D is far superior.

If you decide to play the Multi, I would suggest playing 2H as 5/5+ in that suit and another and 2S as 5/5 in S + a minor.

[jillybean]

Thanks all! Lots of good information, it should be fun trying this out.
Now all I can hope is that the players/directors around here are as open minded as those at Michaels clubs.

[Siegmund]

Quote

Now all I can hope is that the players/directors around here are as open minded as those at Michaels clubs.

Not much danger of that.

I've run into one club allowing the Mid-chart, vs. several that restrict things tighter than GCC.

[jillybean]

I'm hoping that they just won't notice, or not enforce the regs.

[gwnn]

I can see why you would want to do that and that it doesn't seem like cheating, only bending the rules a little, but please consider that there is already an animosity toward Multi players and by ignoring rules/regulations you wouldn't help the cause. The only way you can effectively fight the system is by talking to the club owners, opps, directors... Writing to the ACBL is one option but it usually led to disappointment (the best I can recall).

[jillybean]

Gwnn, that comment was not all serious, I don't intend to break the rules or cause a stir however after seeing how many other rules
are ignored or glossed over in this game part of me does what to play what the heck I want to!

Over interference to multi, Mr Woolsley http://bridgewinners...tial-shortness/

2♦: Weak 2 in a major
DBL: 13-15 balanced or some strong hand
Partner's pass over the double gives you the following instructions:
If 4th seat bids anything, you shut up.
If 4th seat passes, you pass with 3+ diamonds (ending the auction). With fewer than 3 diamonds, you bid 2♥ with hearts and redouble with spades.
Redouble by partner forces you to bid 2♥, after which his next bid places the contract.
Other bids by partner are as if no double. In particular, 2♥, 2♠, 3♥, and 3♠ are all pass or correct calls.

I see Mr Woolsley is playing the weak version, playing the weak/strong version opener would of course bid or double after partners pass.

[Phil]

Play Flannery!

[trevahound]

When you're next in Seattle, drop in at the best local club game, the Tuesday night (7pm) Mercercrest game, where Multi is legal (along with other normal conventions that should be GCC but are not).

[the hog]

Phil, on 2012-December-10, 10:51, said:

Play Flannery!

Waste of a bid!