[jillybean]

Dealer: West Vul: All Scoring: IMP

♠ A4 ♥ T2 ♦ AT963 ♣ A952

West North East South

 Pass  1♠    Pass  2♦
 Pass  2♠    Pass  ? 

Is best bid here 3♣?

[inquiry]

jillybean2, on Nov 23 2004, 12:37 PM, said:

Dealer: West Vul: All Scoring: IMP

♠ A4 ♥ T2 ♦ AT963 ♣ A952

West North East South

 Pass  1♠    Pass  2♦
 Pass  2♠    Pass  ? 

Is best bid here 3♣?

Hi, was 2♦ game force for you? Either way you can not pass 2♠.

If 2♦ was not game force, does 3♣ make the auciton game force for you?

The big advantage of 3♣ is that if you are going to play in notrump, it will be much better played from your partner's side. The reason is two fold. First, hearts is the biggest problem it looks like, and the lead will be through partner if you bid NT. So 3♣ is more likely to get partne thinking NT from his side than any other bid you make. Second, irregardless of the heart situation, the lead going to partner will likely be better for you here as you have nothing useful for them to lead up too.

You have a nice hand, but if your partners are like mine, they will open very light sometimes. So if you are not game forced here, maybe an encouraging 3♠ raise is best. I don't mind raising with this hand if it is invitational. If I am already forced to game, I would bid 3♣.

[jillybean]

Hi,
I'm playing with a pickup partner, so i don't believe either 2♦ or 3♣ make the auction game force. Although I have nice hand, as you say with a weak opener it is only invitational.

I see now my mistake (again) and problem was thinking 3♠ was only a competitive raise. Of course, 3♠ here is invitational, it's only a competitive raise in a competitive auction. I think I should write that on my forehead.

Thanks, I think I have got it this time!

[nickf]

Even if 2D wasnt game forcing then 3C certainly is.

But back to your question. If you and your partner's combined assets cannot make game against reasonable breaks (their opening bid plus your 3 Aces) then your partner needs to re-evaluate their hand (and probably should have passed).

The 4321 scale (in isolation) is horrible for assessing the relative strength of one's hands. Aces are undervalued and Queens and Jacks are overvalued. (This is not an advertisment for Zar points either, the popularity of and discussion about continue to mystify me).

nick
sydney

[Free]

3♣ is the best bid imo, and it should be forcing.

[Flame]

Ben how do you adjust zar points here ? intially you have 30 which is oviously too much to invite even vs light opening partner.

[inquiry]

Flame, on Nov 23 2004, 04:54 PM, said:

Ben how do you adjust zar points here ? intially you have 30 which is oviously too much to invite even vs light opening partner.

12 for hcp
6 for controls
12 distribution
+1 for spade fit honor
------
31, but then minus 3 for only 2 spades (this is how i do it, 2♠ did not promises six.

so 31-3 = 28. Still enough to force to game. I am bidding 3♣ now and then raising spades next if need be. I am with nickf, if you can't make game with this hand opposite normal breaks, your partner had no business opening.