Example why I hate regular 2/1
#1
Posted 2004-November-12, 22:51
♥xxx
♦K
♣KJT9
Pard opens 1♦; 1♠; 3♣ by pard..your call?
#3
Posted 2004-November-12, 23:23
#5
Posted 2004-November-13, 00:40
pclayton, on Nov 13 2004, 05:23 AM, said:
Are you worried that partner only has 3♣?
Can you construct a hand where partner would bid like this where 1. he has 3♣, and 2. you are not making 5 or 6 ♦?
Eric
#6
Posted 2004-November-13, 00:41
#7 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2004-November-13, 00:53
#8
Posted 2004-November-13, 01:24
Jlall, on Nov 13 2004, 08:53 AM, said:
opener can have a strong 3-card support for spades too and no heart stop
i.e:
Don't tell me you open this one 2NT.
Al
♠♥♠ BAD bidding may be succesful due to excellent play, but not vice versa. ♦♣♦
Teaching in the BIL TUE 8:00am CET.
Lessons available. For INFO look here: Play bridge with Al
#9
Posted 2004-November-13, 01:37
xx1943, on Nov 13 2004, 07:24 AM, said:
Jlall, on Nov 13 2004, 08:53 AM, said:
opener can have a strong 3-card support for spades too and no heart stop
i.e:
Don't tell me you open this one 2NT.
Al
But on this one, he'll put you back into 4♠ when you bid 4♣
And why not open it 2NT (if your range includes this strength hand)?
Eric
#10
Posted 2004-November-13, 01:42
Of course this is a 2N opening. What on earth else would you open? Surely not 1D!
#12
Posted 2004-November-13, 02:38
xx1943, on Nov 13 2004, 02:24 AM, said:
Jlall, on Nov 13 2004, 08:53 AM, said:
opener can have a strong 3-card support for spades too and no heart stop
i.e:
Don't tell me you open this one 2NT.
Al
whats wrong whit 2 nt???
foole me twice, shame on me....!!
#13
Posted 2004-November-13, 03:54
#14
Posted 2004-November-13, 04:58
pclayton, on Nov 13 2004, 06:23 AM, said:
This isn't completely true. You can still play 2/1 and adopt a very powerful Gazzilli structure to modify opener rebids.
Playing Gazzlli the way I do the changes in rebids after opening 1M are:
2♣= multi, natural 11-15 or some unspecific 16+ hands (usually 5431/6431) (with 2♦ asking for clarification)
2NT= GF one-suiter, usually 18+
jump shifts= GF two-suiters, minimum 5-5 and 18+
This way you can even improve your 1NT opening by never opening it with 5M.
Holding 5M332 you bid:
1) With 15-16= 1M->2♣->2NT
2) With 17-19= 1M->2♣->3NT
3) With 20-22= 2NT+puppet
Also you can use the 1♥-1NT-2♠ sequence to show a weak 6♥5♠ hand cause the natural reverse could go through Gazzilli: 1♥->2♣->2♠.
A lot of improvements and almost nothing to lose (except 1M-1A-2m beeing NF).
#15
Posted 2004-November-13, 06:18
pclayton, on Nov 13 2004, 05:23 AM, said:
Some people in Italy play the "generic reverse", e.g. bidding next step above suit rebid shows an unspecified reverse (saying nothing about 2nd suit) and is asking responder to describe.
This way you can save bidding space on many hands, such as the one you posted, where after 1♦:1♠:? rebid would be 2♥ artificial (not promising anything in ♥).
I don't know the details of the followup, but it seems to me that even using a "natural-like" set of responses (suit rebid or pref to responder with a weak hand, possibly 2NT Ingberman for discriminating the strength of 3-level bids) instead of shape/strength showing relay structure , there should be room for improvement opposite std methods.
#16
Posted 2004-November-13, 08:07
#17
Posted 2004-November-13, 08:45
pclayton, on Nov 13 2004, 04:51 AM, said:
♥xxx
♦K
♣KJT9
Pard opens 1♦; 1♠; 3♣ by pard..your call?
I would say this is not that diffiuclt, let alone to say this is the weakness of 2/1. Just bid 3H, pass pd's 3N, raise 3S to 4S, otherwise bid 5C.
#18
Posted 2004-November-13, 10:53
________________________________________________
OK; I bid 4♣. It seemed safe enough, since if pard has the big single suiter and a club fragment, diamonds or clubs should still play OK. I like my hand; My clubs fill up his fragment and my K♦ is a huge card.
Pard bids 4♦. Now whats your call?
#19
Posted 2004-November-13, 11:26
#20
Posted 2004-November-13, 11:34
pclayton, on Nov 13 2004, 04:53 PM, said:
________________________________________________
OK; I bid 4♣. It seemed safe enough, since if pard has the big single suiter and a club fragment, diamonds or clubs should still play OK. I like my hand; My clubs fill up his fragment and my K♦ is a huge card.
Pard bids 4♦. Now whats your call?
Hehe, is pd jumping shift with 63 d and c? not impossible. I think 4C is a bit rush, perhaps 3H waiting would be better. I think I will bid 5D. If pd has real diamond suit, then this should plays better than 5C. If pd has real club suit, then 4D should imply slam interest. In that case 5D shows a high card and he may bid 6C. Both suits me well.