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strong 2 suiter hand

Poll: what do you open ? (46 member(s) have cast votes)

what do you open ?

  1. 1s (14 votes [30.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.43%

  2. 2c (32 votes [69.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 69.57%

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#1 User is offline   Flame 

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Posted 2004-October-24, 12:48


very simple question, no other options here.
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#2 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2004-October-24, 17:28

Much as I dislike opening strong 2 suiters with 2C opening this hand with 1S is too much for me.
2C for me.
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#3 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2004-October-24, 18:22

20 years ago, this would be a unanimous vote for 2. Now, strong 2 suiters like to be opened 1. Pard is expected to keep the bidding open with as much as a King.

With this pattern, I can't see anything bad that can happen if I open 2. I have easy rebids after 2, and pard's expected 2nd negative after I bid 2.

There are SOME patterns that are a bear to bid after a 2 opener, but this isn't one of them.
"Phil" on BBO
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#4 User is offline   HeartA 

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Posted 2004-October-24, 18:34

2C, absolutely.
Senshu
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#5 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2004-October-24, 20:33

2c
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#6 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2004-October-24, 21:09

I'm a 2 opener.

This hand was from an Abalucy tourney, 4th seat, red vul. Of those who got the chance to open this and who weren't playing a strong club, 8 chose 2, 4 chose 1.

What is worring is that only 5 of the 8 2 openers reached game. With a 2-1-4-6 shape, 2 passed openers 2 rebid and 1 passed opener's third bid of 3! Based on this, maybe a 1 opener is better :P
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#7 User is offline   HeartA 

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Posted 2004-October-24, 21:30

MickyB, on Oct 24 2004, 10:09 PM, said:

I'm a 2 opener.

This hand was from an Abalucy tourney, 4th seat, red vul. Of those who got the chance to open this and who weren't playing a strong club, 8 chose 2, 4 chose 1.

What is worring is that only 5 of the 8 2 openers reached game. With a 2-1-4-6 shape, 2 passed openers 2 rebid and 1 passed opener's third bid of 3! Based on this, maybe a 1 opener is better :P

Am I dinosaur here? 2C opening usually forced to 3 of majors or 4 of minors (and new suit is usually (always?) forcing). In the sequense, 2-2-2-?-3, responder can't pass 2S or 3D.
Senshu
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#8 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2004-October-25, 01:15

MickyB, on Oct 25 2004, 03:09 AM, said:

I'm a 2 opener.

This hand was from an Abalucy tourney, 4th seat, red vul. Of those who got the chance to open this and who weren't playing a strong club, 8 chose 2, 4 chose 1.

What is worring is that only 5 of the 8 2 openers reached game. With a 2-1-4-6 shape, 2 passed openers 2 rebid and 1 passed opener's third bid of 3! Based on this, maybe a 1 opener is better :P

What happened to the pairs where 1 was opened?

Eric (who is a 2 opener)
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#9 User is offline   daswallow 

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Posted 2004-October-25, 05:15

Maybe I am wrong, but I open this 1.
If pard responds we will be better placed in the auction, and if not hopefully those nice opps will balance in for me.
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#10 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2004-October-25, 05:52

I opened it a strong club, and rebid 2S (forcing to game). WIth some interference (opps bid hearts to the 3 level) we got to 5D, and I had a go at my partner for not bidding 6 with 4 trumps and a singleton in their suit.
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#11 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-October-25, 06:19

3... GF with 5+ and 5+m
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#12 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2004-October-25, 06:56

Give me the K and it will still be a 1 opening, good luck to 2 bidders after opps bid 5.
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#13 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2004-October-25, 07:57

5C?? Have you been seeing too many horror movies? :)
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#14 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2004-October-25, 11:27

im sure im in a clear minority, but thats ok im used to it :) i will take my chances with 1S
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#15 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2004-October-25, 11:52

If you are going to open this hand with 1 (and it may be right to), then there is surely no longer any need to use 2 as a strong opening.

But I bet none of those who have voted for 1 are using eg a weak 2 in .

Why not?

Eric
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#16 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2004-October-25, 12:01

EricK, on Oct 25 2004, 05:52 PM, said:

If you are going to open this hand with 1 (and it may be right to), then there is surely no longer any need to use 2 as a strong opening.

But I bet none of those who have voted for 1 are using eg a weak 2 in .

Why not?

Eric

2 opening is good for the hands that don´t have a good rebid: very strong balanced, and strong one siters.
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#17 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2004-October-25, 12:02

because sometimes i am dealt 24 balanced. sometimes im dealt 11 tricks in my own hand. there is no way you can play a system with no strong bid. If you do this, all opening 1 bids must be 1 round forces, which means a response by partner no longer shows any values. Now it is impossible to ever bid with any precision. Is a jumpshift forcing? opener could have a huge hand. But if it is, then with 19 you can no longer jump shift since partner could have nothing. Similarly, you can no longer show various NT ranges after 20-21. A strong bid is a cornerstone of every popular system, and it is impossible to have constructive auctions without one.
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#18 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2004-October-25, 12:35

Jlall, on Oct 25 2004, 07:02 PM, said:

because sometimes i am dealt 24 balanced. sometimes im dealt 11 tricks in my own hand. there is no way you can play a system with no strong bid. If you do this, all opening 1 bids must be 1 round forces

Wrong. If I believe I am gaining from using 2 as weak, then I'll accept the occasional bad result when I'm dealt a 24 count. Responding on 2 counts will lead to many more bad results than passing 2 counts.
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#19 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2004-October-25, 13:21

One must draw a line somewhere. One can't just open a virtual slam-in-hand at the 1-level just because the hand is two-suited. And the lighter you open, the lower the line should be (I personally put it around 20-21 hcp).
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#20 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2004-October-25, 14:05

MickyB, on Oct 25 2004, 10:35 AM, said:

Jlall, on Oct 25 2004, 07:02 PM, said:

because sometimes i am dealt 24 balanced. sometimes im dealt 11 tricks in my own hand. there is no way you can play a system with no strong bid. If you do this, all opening 1 bids must be 1 round forces

Wrong. If I believe I am gaining from using 2 as weak, then I'll accept the occasional bad result when I'm dealt a 24 count. Responding on 2 counts will lead to many more bad results than passing 2 counts.

Well, if someone can find a single convention card of the teams playing in Istanbul that doesn't have a strong forcing opening, then I'll agree. A weak 2 opening has been around for at least 25 years, but the idea has been pretty much discarded.
"Phil" on BBO
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