BBO Discussion Forums: Example why I hate regular 2/1 - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Example why I hate regular 2/1

#1 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2004-November-12, 22:51

Txxxx
xxx
K
KJT9

Pard opens 1; 1; 3 by pard..your call?
"Phil" on BBO
0

#2 User is offline   Deanrover 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 623
  • Joined: 2003-February-13

Posted 2004-November-12, 23:03

Why is this so specific to 2/1 (as opposed to , say, SAYC) ?
0

#3 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2004-November-12, 23:23

The topic title means that I hate the jump shift and reverse structure in 2/1. Frequently you have to invent a reverse or jump shift to create a force with semi-strong hands.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#4 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2004-November-13, 00:03

4C...seems too easy
0

#5 User is offline   EricK 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,302
  • Joined: 2003-February-14
  • Location:England

Posted 2004-November-13, 00:40

pclayton, on Nov 13 2004, 05:23 AM, said:

The topic title means that I hate the jump shift and reverse structure in 2/1. Frequently you have to invent a reverse or jump shift to create a force with semi-strong hands.

Are you worried that partner only has 3?

Can you construct a hand where partner would bid like this where 1. he has 3, and 2. you are not making 5 or 6 ?

Eric
0

#6 User is offline   the hog 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,614
  • Joined: 2003-March-07
  • Location:Laos
  • Interests:Wagner and Bridge

Posted 2004-November-13, 00:41

4C. Seriously wtp? If partner has only 3C he is a nutter!
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
0

#7 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2004-November-13, 00:53

i dont deny that he could have 3 clubs but even if he does my clubs and diamond king are cold. 6D or a moysian could play very well.
0

#8 User is offline   xx1943 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 492
  • Joined: 2004-March-11

Posted 2004-November-13, 01:24

Jlall, on Nov 13 2004, 08:53 AM, said:

i dont deny that he could have 3 clubs but even if he does my clubs and diamond king are cold. 6D or a moysian could play very well.

opener can have a strong 3-card support for spades too and no heart stop

i.e:



Don't tell me you open this one 2NT. :angry:

Al
Play Bridge for fun and entertainment and to meet nice people.
BAD bidding may be succesful due to excellent play, but not vice versa.
Teaching in the BIL TUE 8:00am CET.

Lessons available. For INFO look here: Play bridge with Al
0

#9 User is offline   EricK 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,302
  • Joined: 2003-February-14
  • Location:England

Posted 2004-November-13, 01:37

xx1943, on Nov 13 2004, 07:24 AM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 13 2004, 08:53 AM, said:

i dont deny that he could have 3 clubs but even if he does my clubs and diamond king are cold. 6D or a moysian could play very well.

opener can have a strong 3-card support for spades too and no heart stop

i.e:



Don't tell me you open this one 2NT. ;)

Al

But on this one, he'll put you back into 4 when you bid 4

And why not open it 2NT (if your range includes this strength hand)?

Eric
0

#10 User is offline   the hog 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,614
  • Joined: 2003-March-07
  • Location:Laos
  • Interests:Wagner and Bridge

Posted 2004-November-13, 01:42

"Don't tell me you open this one 2NT. "

Of course this is a 2N opening. What on earth else would you open? Surely not 1D!
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
0

#11 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2004-November-13, 02:06

definitely open it 2N
0

#12 User is offline   helium 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 333
  • Joined: 2004-January-07
  • Location:Norway
  • Interests:BRIDGE!!!!!!

Posted 2004-November-13, 02:38

xx1943, on Nov 13 2004, 02:24 AM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 13 2004, 08:53 AM, said:

i dont deny that he could have 3 clubs but even if he does my clubs and diamond king are cold. 6D or a moysian could play very well.

opener can have a strong 3-card support for spades too and no heart stop

i.e:



Don't tell me you open this one 2NT. ;)

Al

whats wrong whit 2 nt???
foole me once, shame one you!!
foole me twice, shame on me....!!
0

#13 User is offline   Gerben47 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 428
  • Joined: 2003-October-27

Posted 2004-November-13, 03:54

Open 2NT, 3 is a strong unbalanced hand with 4+.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
0

#14 User is offline   Poky 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 508
  • Joined: 2003-July-18
  • Location:Croatia

  Posted 2004-November-13, 04:58

pclayton, on Nov 13 2004, 06:23 AM, said:

The topic title means that I hate the jump shift and reverse structure in 2/1. Frequently you have to invent a reverse or jump shift to create a force with semi-strong hands.

This isn't completely true. You can still play 2/1 and adopt a very powerful Gazzilli structure to modify opener rebids.

Playing Gazzlli the way I do the changes in rebids after opening 1M are:
2= multi, natural 11-15 or some unspecific 16+ hands (usually 5431/6431) (with 2 asking for clarification)
2NT= GF one-suiter, usually 18+
jump shifts= GF two-suiters, minimum 5-5 and 18+

This way you can even improve your 1NT opening by never opening it with 5M.

Holding 5M332 you bid:
1) With 15-16= 1M->2->2NT
2) With 17-19= 1M->2->3NT
3) With 20-22= 2NT+puppet

Also you can use the 1-1NT-2 sequence to show a weak 65 hand cause the natural reverse could go through Gazzilli: 1->2->2.

A lot of improvements and almost nothing to lose (except 1M-1A-2m beeing NF).
0

#15 User is offline   Chamaco 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,902
  • Joined: 2003-December-02
  • Location:Rimini-Bologna (Italy)
  • Interests:Chess, Bridge, Jazz, European Cinema, Motorbiking, Tango dancing

Posted 2004-November-13, 06:18

pclayton, on Nov 13 2004, 05:23 AM, said:

The topic title means that I hate the jump shift and reverse structure in 2/1. Frequently you have to invent a reverse or jump shift to create a force with semi-strong hands.

Some people in Italy play the "generic reverse", e.g. bidding next step above suit rebid shows an unspecified reverse (saying nothing about 2nd suit) and is asking responder to describe.
This way you can save bidding space on many hands, such as the one you posted, where after 1:1:? rebid would be 2 artificial (not promising anything in ).

I don't know the details of the followup, but it seems to me that even using a "natural-like" set of responses (suit rebid or pref to responder with a weak hand, possibly 2NT Ingberman for discriminating the strength of 3-level bids) instead of shape/strength showing relay structure , there should be room for improvement opposite std methods.
"Bridge is like dance: technique's important but what really matters is not to step on partner's feet !"
0

#16 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,394
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2004-November-13, 08:07

I don´t see the problem playing 2/1, just bid 4sf followed by 5 if partner doesn´t have stop.
0

#17 User is offline   flytoox 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,606
  • Joined: 2003-June-06

Posted 2004-November-13, 08:45

pclayton, on Nov 13 2004, 04:51 AM, said:

Txxxx
xxx
K
KJT9

Pard opens 1; 1; 3 by pard..your call?

I would say this is not that diffiuclt, let alone to say this is the weakness of 2/1. Just bid 3H, pass pd's 3N, raise 3S to 4S, otherwise bid 5C.
0

#18 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2004-November-13, 10:53

Continuation.......................

________________________________________________

OK; I bid 4. It seemed safe enough, since if pard has the big single suiter and a club fragment, diamonds or clubs should still play OK. I like my hand; My clubs fill up his fragment and my K is a huge card.

Pard bids 4. Now whats your call?
"Phil" on BBO
0

#19 User is offline   luke warm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,951
  • Joined: 2003-September-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Bridge, poker, politics

Posted 2004-November-13, 11:26

do you play the j/s is forcing to game? if so i bid 5D
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
0

#20 User is offline   flytoox 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,606
  • Joined: 2003-June-06

Posted 2004-November-13, 11:34

pclayton, on Nov 13 2004, 04:53 PM, said:

Continuation.......................

________________________________________________

OK; I bid 4. It seemed safe enough, since if pard has the big single suiter and a club fragment, diamonds or clubs should still play OK. I like my hand; My clubs fill up his fragment and my K is a huge card.

Pard bids 4. Now whats your call?

Hehe, is pd jumping shift with 63 d and c? not impossible. I think 4C is a bit rush, perhaps 3H waiting would be better. I think I will bid 5D. If pd has real diamond suit, then this should plays better than 5C. If pd has real club suit, then 4D should imply slam interest. In that case 5D shows a high card and he may bid 6C. Both suits me well.
0

Share this topic:


  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users