[inquiry]

joker_gib, on Nov 9 2004, 11:07 AM, said:

I know that most of the books tell that when in balancing seat you have to double with opening values but believe me, you can simply play the suit reopening as if it was an overcall and only double with 16+ hands !

For me, I can throw the books out... hehehehe... When I am short in their suit, I double, unless you ahve an offensive hand with a suit of my own. I am a "pattern-first", points later type of guy. I have started exending and extending my balancing 1NT bids by the way, for the same reason.

But then, I know most people don't bid this way. With the joker hand, I would bid 1♠ and if the opponents competed to 2♥, now I would make a takeout double.

Ben

[Rebound]

My question is to those who would bid either minor over the double. What do you do with a 2S response? If you pass, partner will surely go down opposite a void (smart opps, I think will just pass it out at 2S rather than double with a spade stack). If you bid the other minor, partner will think you have a good 2-suiter and you may end up in slam even if his hand isn't all that great. If you bid NT or rebid your minor over 2S it's also going to get you into trouble.

On the other hand, if you pass the original double, partner will count on you for defence and again may go too high if the opponents keep the auction open but it seems the best way to have a chance at a plus.

[joker_gib]

Chamaco, on Nov 9 2004, 10:11 AM, said:

Here double is perfectly fitting with this hand (singleton in opps suit), there fore I am a doubler (as- I think, many players). Change a bit the shape and I may bid 1S holding the same values.

If the bidding goes :

1♥ - - 1♠
2♥

I think that it is a lot easier for partner to bid than with

1♥ - - Dbl
2♥

By the way, with that hand, you can maybe also reopen with a dbl later. The most important is to show your 5♠ suit !

[Free]

2♣...

[Chamaco]

whereagles, on Nov 9 2004, 03:12 PM, said:

Chamaco, on Nov 9 2004, 03:59 PM, said:

Actually, there has ben a thread (I forgot whether here or on rec.games.bridge) about this isue, and most experienced players suggested that, in reaponse to a t/o double, really weak hands should avoid- when in doubt -to bid a major.

There are indeed some people "lobbying" for that. But I seem to recall doing it only when you don't have 4 in the unbid major(s).

No, I just meant in general when in doubt.

The actual thread I refer to was actrually about responding with hand with 5+ minor and 4 in major and a weak hand.
It was suggested to bid the minor if broke, and the major if semiconstructive, on the basis that the minor suit response was more discouraging.

I am not sure, but I suppose that a similar argument may apply also holding 4m+4M and a broke hand.

[EarlPurple]

What does this show?

1♥ pass pass Dbl
pass 2♥

I wasn't able to bid or make a take-out double first round, yet I have now cue-bid. Does it show a hand like 2-3-4-4 15-count with no heart stop (thus stuck for a bid last round?). Or maybe a decent minor 2-suiter that felt it too unsafe to bid last time around.

If so, then 2♦ followed by 3♣ over a spade bid by partner can't show such a hand (as was perhaps suggested previously).

At least one of the 3 others at the table must have 5 spades. If it is not partner, then RHO was probably something like 4-5-2-2 and LHO something like 5-2-3-3, thus giving partner the almost perfect 4-1-4-4.

[pclayton]

EarlPurple, on Nov 9 2004, 07:54 AM, said:

What does this show?

1♥ pass pass Dbl
pass 2♥

I wasn't able to bid or make a take-out double first round, yet I have now cue-bid. Does it show a hand like 2-3-4-4 15-count with no heart stop (thus stuck for a bid last round?). Or maybe a decent minor 2-suiter that felt it too unsafe to bid last time around.

If so, then 2♦ followed by 3♣ over a spade bid by partner can't show such a hand (as was perhaps suggested previously).

At least one of the 3 others at the table must have 5 spades. If it is not partner, then RHO was probably something like 4-5-2-2 and LHO something like 5-2-3-3, thus giving partner the almost perfect 4-1-4-4.

IMO the 2♥ call shows roughly a balanced or slightly off-shape 13-15 count; i.e., a hand unsuitable for direct action over 1♥.

AQx, Axx, Kxxx, xxx feels about right, so does: Ax, Kxxx, AQxx, xx. In other words it likely shows one of JT's 1N overcalls

[inquiry]

EarlPurple, on Nov 9 2004, 11:54 AM, said:

What does this show?

1♥ pass pass Dbl
pass 2♥

No free suit bid after a takeout double is forcing, even with a jump. Traditionally a cue-bid is meant to establish game force. Here I would use this cue-bid as quasi-game force.

One thing advancer doesn't have is a heart stack, or a hand suitable for 3NT. But he does have a good hand (See phil's response), to issue such a strong invite. Since I would overcall on most four card suits with an excuse to bid at the one level, I would tend to think this hand lacks a four card spade suit, or has a weak four card suit, and certainly not a biddable minor at the two level either. So I think phil has it right on the nose. A 3-3-(43) or 2-3-4-4 or 3-2-4-4 unsuitable for direct action, and nice point count without a heart stopper or with a stopper but interest in seeing if you can bid 3NT from your side for lead purposes.

Ben

[HeartA]

2♣.

[jtfanclub]

pclayton, on Nov 9 2004, 11:01 AM, said:

AQx, Axx, Kxxx, xxx feels about right, so does: Ax, Kxxx, AQxx, xx. In other words it likely shows one of JT's 1N overcalls

My ears are burning...

Jeez, then how would you read:

1♥ P P X
P 2NT?

In my case it's easy. My partner has no need to protect me just in case I had 12-15 balanced- if I passed with that, there's a reason. And partner's not going to forego a 1♠ response with six, not when we could lose the spade suit entirely.

So when I bid 2♣, partner's not going to get exited. If he has 10-15 hcp, he'll pass, not bid his spades. If he has 16+, he's not going to get excited when I rebid 2NT over 2♠. He can figure out what's going on.

I would interpret 2♥ as saying "I am in control, now tell me what you've got". Of course, that's how you get the odd auction of:

1♥ P P X
P 2♥ P 3♥
P 4♥ P 4♠

[the hog]

2C - passing is totally out of the question.

[jikl]

Isn't there another question to be asked here?

What does this mean in an experienced partnership or the one in the hand discussed here?

1♥ pass pass 2♥

Seems there might be some negative inferences available.

Sean

[pclayton]

1♥ pass pass 2♥ is a big but unknown 2 suiter.

The other gut check is: 1x - pass - pass - 2N. It should be 18-20 balanced, but confirm with the center opponent.

[Chamaco]

jikl, on Nov 10 2004, 01:41 AM, said:

Isn't there another question to be asked here?

What does this mean in an experienced partnership or the one in the hand discussed here?

1♥ pass pass 2♥

Seems there might be some negative inferences available.

Sean

I use the suggestion of Lawrence's that unusual 2NT and Michaels are OFF in the balancing seat, so:

- balancing cue = semiGF takeout, usually not interest in hearing a penalty pass if he had doubled; typical hands are strong 1/2 suiters, strong 5440, usually holding a void or little defense in opps suit;

- balancing 2NT = shows about a 21+ balanced

[whereagles]

In this situation I reasoned as follows.

What does partner have? Quite likely, from opps silence, he has spades and a good opening. Given my void, possibly even 6 spades. 7 spades is out of the question because he would have balanced 3S or 4S on that, so the suit rates to have 2-3 losers.

What is going to happen if I bid 2m? Pard is going to bid spades and I'm stuck. If I now insist with 3C or 3D, he'll definitely play me for some values and bid to what seems to be a hopeless game. I'd have to pass 2S and that rates to be a bad contract.

How about passing? Clearly not a textbook pass, but the situation isn't textbook either. My hand is next to worthless in offense, but it's not so bad in defense. We might miss a game, but given the misfit, game would require quite a monster hand in pard. 1H doubled might make, the worst-case-scenario being at most 1 overtrick. Not good, but since this is imps it shouldn't cost much, and sure beats 2S with a couple of vulnerable undertricks. Meanwhile, 1H doubled can go down a trick or two, and that should be an excellent score. I think I'll pass.

Right or wrong, that turned out to be the right move, for pard had:

♠ KQTxxx
♥ A
♦ AJx
♣ xxx

As the cards laid, declarer is booked for 1 down. He actually went two down, (mis)playing me for AJxxx of trumps