[gwnn]

I was playing bridge with some famous Dutch players yesterday when this came up:

p-p-1C-x
1H-1S-p-1N
2D-2H

what is this?

if it is natural, is it forcing and does it show 5 spades? also what is a forcing artificial call then?

if it is a cue, how do you expose a psyche from responder?

bonus question: is double (of 2d) penalty?

feel free to ask and/or answer other questions as you feel fit.

[Fluffy]

penalty double, 2♥ natural non forcing, not sure if 4-4 or 4-5, I think 4-4

[FrancesHinden]

Two of my general rules for competitive auctions:
(i) when in doubt, it's natural
(ii) when in doubt, it's not forcing

That means that 2H is natural and non-forcing.
Quick internal check: if I had a good hand with 4-4 in the majors I would double 1H.

If I wanted to make an artificial forcing I can bid 3 of either minor.

Bonus answer: double of 2D sounds like penalties to me

[JLOGIC]

If I had 4-4 in the majors, I would bid 1S most of the time. I would certainly bid 1S with 5-4. This one is obv natural to me, partner showed hearts, and I bid hearts.

[aguahombre]

The double followed by 1NT from 4th chair was the strong bid. Responder and/or 3rd-seat opener can be the clowns.

The person who bid 1S, didn't have to bid at all; he has some values, making 2H now natural AND forcing. 19-20 for the doubler, plus 6-8 for advancer add up to forcing bids at the 2-level, at least.

[JLOGIC]

So do you think 1N is a GF bid after the free 1S bid? I would bid 1S there with KJTx xxxx xx xxx personally, or QJxxx Jxxx x xxx, or KTxxx Txxxx x xx. I agree that it would be rare that you would not bid game after 1N, but it's not GF, and there are some hands where you will want to stop below game. If you have a forcing hand you have plenty of bids, like 3H or 3S. Getting to slam is not a factor, so there is no need to have low level bids be forcing instead of jumps imo.

[aguahombre]

aguahombre, on 2011-October-15, 04:33, said:

The person who bid 1S, didn't have to bid at all; he has some values, making 2H now natural AND forcing. 19-20 for the doubler, plus 6-8 for advancer add up to forcing bids at the 2-level, at least.

JLOGIC, on 2011-October-15, 04:46, said:

So do you think 1N is a GF bid after the free 1S bid?

"..add up to forcing bids at the 2-level, at least" doesn't mean "game forcing" on my planet. The "6-8" figures I gave for responder could certainly be challenged as to accuracy; they might be shaded a bit by advancer who expected a fit for his suit when he bid freely. But, yes I believe 2H in the OP auction should not be passed by the doubler, hence forcing.

2H is not narrowly describing advancer's strength as subminimum because he is not guaranteed of a fit in either major on this auction, and the probe for strain is still afoot. IMO, jumping around in hearts should be reserved for 5-5 (+) distributions in the weaker part of the 1S response.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2011-October-15, 07:23

[Lurpoa]

gwnn, on 2011-October-15, 04:01, said:

I was playing bridge with some famous Dutch players yesterday when this came up:

p-p-1C-x
1H-1S-p-1N
2D-2H

what is this?

if it is natural, is it forcing and does it show 5 spades? also what is a forcing artificial call then?

if it is a cue, how do you expose a psyche from responder?

bonus question: is double (of 2d) penalty?

feel free to ask and/or answer other questions as you feel fit.

♥♥♥

You should have asked at the table.


♥♥♥

[Free]

For once Lurpoa is right: it shows ♥ ♥ ♥
"Bridge is a simple game"

[gwnn]

Lurpoa, thanks for your nice reply. Unfortunately you have no clue whether or not I asked at the table, in fact we were 5 people at the table and we were talking about this sequence on and off for about 15 minutes. So yes, I did ask about this particular bid but there was no clear/convincing agreement and I thought it would be nice if I could hear some other very good bridge players' opinion on this. In fact it did happen, which is pretty cool. So what's the point of your reply, other than try to troll a little bit more?