[gwnn]

QJTx
x
KQ
QT9xxx

x
AKxx
Axxx
AJxx

S deals, natural methods.

[gordontd]

I see no reverse.

[gwnn]

thats ok, but you still have to bid it, a passout will.not get you a lot of points.

my teammate pointed out that I should post about the scoring: 50% imp and 50% mp (patton)

[gordontd]

1♦-1♠
2♣-3♥
3NT

[Zelandakh]

Or 1D - 2C: 3S! - 3NT (not playing 2/1, low road)
Or 1D - 2C: 3S! - 4C; 4D! - 4S!; 5C (not playing 2/1, high road)
Or 1D - 1H!; 2C - 2D!; 3C! (1444, 14-17) - 3NT (1H relay, low road)
Or 1D - 1H!; 2C - 2D!; 3C! (1444, 14-17) - 3D!; 4D (7 controls) - 4H!; 5D - 6C (1H relay, high road)
Or 1D - 1S; 2H - 2NT!; 3C - 3NT (using the suggested reverse plus transfers, low road)
Or 1D - 1S; 2H - 2NT!; 3NT - 4C; 6C (using the suggested reverse plus transfers, high road)
Or 1D - 1S; 2H - 3NT (reverse without transfers, low road)
Or 1D - 1S; 2H - 3C; 4C - 4D!; 4H! - 4N!; 5C (reverse without transfers, high road)

Basically any low road path leads to 3NT, obviously. High road path will lead to either 5C or 6C depending on whether you key card or not and what else you can ascertain.

[Fluffy]

My start would be:

1♦-1♠ (1♠ cos not strong enough for GF)
2♣-2♥ (2♣ not strong enough to reverse cos 4441 is not a good shape. 2♥ because ♦KQ reevaluates to GF hand with 10 clubs in line)
3♥-??


East might bid 3NT because of the Patton scoring, but 5♣ could be just as good, it takes 4 keycards (or 3 and a void) to make slam, so perhaps if you answer keycards to 4♣ or some if those wondrful gadgets around that I never tired its the best shot, but 5♣ is good option as well descrbing a minimum hand with a lot of clubs.

[JLOGIC]

1D 1S
2C 4C

seems like a reasonable start

[TWO4BRIDGE]

gordontd, on 2011-October-15, 04:14, said:

1♦-1♠
2♣-3♥
3NT

I never met a splinter I didn't like.
Opener, with all those controls , makes a 4C! Minorwood try ( Minorwood and not Kickback since agreement was at the 3-level ) and stops in 4NT or 5C ( to play ) after he finds 2 key cards missing:

1D - 1S
2C - 3H!
4C! - 4D ( 0/3 )
??
.. 4H = dQ-ask
.. 4S = ( 2nd step ) K-ask ( asks for cheapest bid K )
.. 4NT = to play
.. 5C = to play
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Edit: Maybe Gordon's stop in 3NT is more prudent. Responder is limited.
If Responder had GF values with a black 2-suiter, he would have first bid 2C! ( 2/1 GF ) over 1D .... and still have room to find a 4-4 Sp fit on the 2-level.

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2011-October-15, 09:09

[Fluffy]

BTW in standard 3 hearts is game forcing 5-5 in the majors

[chasetb]

The North hand isn't close to being strong enough to splinter if you ask me. All the soft values also scream 3NT, which is where I know I would end up.

1♦ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♥
3♥ - 3♠
3NT - All Pass

What did I win?

[FrancesHinden]

1NT - 2C
2H - 3NT
P

[Siegmund]

Put me down for 1D-1S-2C, the forcing raise of your choice, and probably no way to bail out short of 6C. Neither glory nor shame in a 50% slam...

[MickyB]

Fluffy, on 2011-October-15, 09:22, said:

BTW in standard 3 hearts is game forcing 5-5 in the majors

Odd - I was fairly sure that the standard meaning for 2H then 3H was GF with 5-5 in the majors

[Fluffy]

I was taught that 2♥ then 3♥ is invitational, but perhaps this is from the times where 4sf wasn't GF

[the hog]

I also see no reverse here.
1D 1S
2C 3H
3NT
and that's all folks.

[han]

I held the south hand. I opened 1C and rebid 2H.

[Cyberyeti]

At IMPS, we bid 1♦-2♣-2N (GF not necessarily balanced)-3♠-4♣-5♣

If partner has enough to bid a cold 6, most of the time he will do so (4 key cards and a second round spade control). The only hand type we might miss it on is void, AKx, AJxxxx, Kxxx where partner may be worried about the diamonds not running and spade wastage.

[JLOGIC]

han, on 2011-October-16, 09:14, said:

I held the south hand. I opened 1C and rebid 2H.

Why? Some systemic reason?

[the hog]

JLOGIC, on 2011-October-16, 14:01, said:

Why? Some systemic reason?

I am also curious. For us this would show 5+C , 4H and a better hand, as I suspect it would for most.

[han]

JLOGIC, on 2011-October-16, 14:01, said:

Why? Some systemic reason?

In my regular partnership we systemically open 1C with 4-4 in the minors. This hand came up in a pub-crawl tournament and we had no subtle agreements. Recently I have been studying the Schollaardt-Wortel system, they bid 1C - 1S - 2H on 1-4-4-4 hands that they consider strong enough for this auction. I thought this was a suitable hand to test their approach.

Are the alternatives better?

I don't like opening 1NT with a small singleton.

Of courrse I could open my weakest 4-card suit. After 1D - 1S - 2C, I could play in 2C cold for 4H if partner is 5-4-1-3. If partner has a gameforcing hand, he might bid 3NT (should I bid over that?) or 2H (I'd bid 3H but could I show my extra strength?).