[Stephen Tu]

Can you find a sequence to get to these slams while avoiding them if the hands were slightly different making slam anti-percentage?
1.Dealer South

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2.East bids 3♥ if possible.

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[Fluffy]

On the first one after 1♠-2♠ south bids 3♥ to find about ♥Q, North' hand is close, but I don't think Jxxx is particurarilly a good holding on a 8-10 raise context. If he bids 4♥ or 4♠ south will tink there is no heart loser and after blackwood bid slam, if he bids 3♠ only south will assume a heart is to be losed and be happy in game.

To me this is a 50% slam. ♦Q chances teh odds making it a great slam, specially if you never use a splinter from south, but I don't think playing or not playing this one is very important on the long run.


The second one its easier since I'd only overcall 3♣ with the north hand, when partner raises its an easy slam drive. Partner could have ♦xxx but perhaps then ♠KQ is enough fo2 discards etc. I don't think changing this hand slightly will make slam unplayable.

[Cyberyeti]

The first one I don't see a way of getting to, but avoiding it if partner has xxx hearts.

I'm not opening 1♠ as xxx, xxx, xxxx, xxx may well make game opposite.

2♣-2♦-2♠-3♠(an ace, won't have a king as well)-4♣-4♠-5♥(Q?)-5♠

The second (2♥)-X-(3♥)-3♠(or pass, I think this is close)-4♣-5♣-6♣

[Zelandakh]

On the first my approach would be similar to the posters above - set spades, keycard and look for the HQ:-

1C = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any
... - 1D = 0-8 any
1S = 18+ 3-suited or any unbal GF
... - 1N = 6-8 without a great suit
2S = natural
... - 3S = natural, at least 1 key card
4N = RKCB
... - 5C = 1 key card
5H = suit ask in hearts
... - 5S = no 3rd round control


The second is interesting as there seem to be many viable routes. I would be tempted to start with a cue and since we have had auctions for 3C and double let's also explore that... (2H) - 3H - 3S; 5C - 6C seems practical, if somewhat "bashy".

[inquiry]

I feel like after hammering MisIry on and off for years, I will have to give the MisIry auction for this hand. I don't think it is possible for us to accurately bid slam using MisIry, but I will show the two options.

Start of the auction is to three spades
2N*1 		1. weak clubs, or strong two suiter with hearts, +not club
  	3C*2   2. Signoff opposite weak in clubs
3C*3 		3. 5+S, 5+H, 3 losers, at least one loser in clubs 

After these first three bids, East has two choices. First is to try for a slam. He is not certain there is a club loser, partner might have Ax of clubs and he can throw a club away on spades, plus he has sure cover (the spade ACE). So he will try for slam

   	4C*4  4. No (at this point) club cover. Partner with xx will signoff
4N*5 		5. Not off two losers in clubs, missing heart queen.
   	5C*6  6. The non-material cue-bid, would a club ruff be useful

5H*7 		7. No, ruffing a club is not useful

Sadly after five heart bid, East knows a lot about West hand, just not enough. He has no diamond loser. Why, one loser is in clubs (west told us), one is in spades (East has the ace), and one is the heart queen (West told us), so no diamond loser. East knows the SLAM in hearts or spades 40% at worse (partner has AKxxx of hearts, so need 2=2 heart split). But East also knows that West could have the heart JACK (AKJxx) which would make the odds better (if the J and T of hearts were reversed, would be easier on East). Or West could have six hearts. There is no way, sadly, here for East to know about a sixth heart or about the possession of the jack (the jack is 50-50 to be with opener. Why, there are eight non-heart Ace slots "missing"... West has four of them, NS share four of them, equal chance for jack to be in any of those slots). If West has the jack, then the slam is just above even chances to make. If West has six hearts, the slam is great favorite to make and even greater if he has six to AKJ. To bid the slam or not is a matter of guess and hope. I would probably bid the slam, but it is not clear, so this is not a terrific victory for MisIry. Note: The non-material cue-bid of 5C really wasn't really necessary.

I have posted a draft version description of MisIry in the 11th reply in the thread at this link in the interesting thread forums that supports the auction as shown.

[gnasher]

I'd definitely want to be in slam on the first one. If they don't lead a club it's cold; if they do lead a club I can decide how to play the hearts after I've seen how the trumps break.

I can't see a scientific way to bid it, but I might just punt it after 1♠-3♠ (mixed).

[xxhong]

1:
2C 2D(gf)
3H(both majors, at least 5-5) 3S(set up trumps)
3N(cue in C) 4H(mild slam interest, no D/H controls)
5D(cue, let's see whether partner can cue 5H) now it's close, 6S or 5S are both fine.

2:
x 2S
4C 6C

Stephen Tu, on 2011-September-07, 20:10, said:

Can you find a sequence to get to these slams while avoiding them if the hands were slightly different making slam anti-percentage?
1.Dealer South

---

2.East bids 3♥ if possible.

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[han]

2.

(2H) - 6D - all pass.

Darn!

[whereagles]

1. Gonzalo's 1S-2S-3H seems like a good start, but honestly I'd just keycard after 2S and go happily down if pard flops ♥xxx.

2. This depends on methods, I guess. Playing (2H)-3NT as running minor + stop you're probably stuck in 3NT. Playing (2H)-3H as minors I guess overcaller can make some noise over pard's preference. Not sure you can reach slam after that, but that's the best I can come up with.

[Cascade]

han, on 2011-September-09, 16:32, said:

2.

(2H) - 6D - all pass.

Darn!

Unlucky!!! Textbook bid though.

[JLOGIC]

gnasher, on 2011-September-09, 11:10, said:

I'd definitely want to be in slam on the first one. If they don't lead a club it's cold; if they do lead a club I can decide how to play the hearts after I've seen how the trumps break.

I can't see a scientific way to bid it, but I might just punt it after 1♠-3♠ (mixed).

I just want to add that they often lead a stiff heart unless they lead the CA, so on something like a low club lead picking up hearts becomes very likely also. Obv this is a great slam.

I don't like opening 1S at all, I know part of my 23 is stiff K, but I still have 5-5 with good suits, all aces and kings except my wonderful QJ of spades, and even the 10 of hearts.

A possible auction might be:

2C 2D
2S 3S
4H*

4H= natural suit, at which point north probably won't like their hand that much and will sign off. Meh. Kinda unlucky that the DQ is working in that auction, and now the 4th trump and doubleton doesn't look that useful. Maybe he's supposed to bid 5S but probably I'd sign off in 4S.

The second one perhaps depends on methods. If it starts:

2H X 3H 3S
P 4C P

it will be impossible to avoid slam (even over 5C, the other hand will just bid 6C imo).

If it starts:

2H 3H(strong minor, stopper ask) P 3S
P 4C

The other hand is quite awesome. Of course this sequence does not work well if you belong in diamonds, so maybe you should still start with double, but it at least avoids the problems of doubling with a stiff spade. I would expect the 2nd one to be impossible to miss with any reasonable auction/system though.

[JLOGIC]

whereagles, on 2011-September-09, 17:02, said:

2. This depends on methods, I guess. Playing (2H)-3NT as running minor + stop you're probably stuck in 3NT. Playing (2H)-3H as minors I guess overcaller can make some noise over pard's preference. Not sure you can reach slam after that, but that's the best I can come up with.

Just my opinion but overcalling 3N seems like a joke. If you have running clubs you will usually make 5C, and if you don't you need some heart help from partner anyways, and will often be cold for 5+ clubs even without running clubs. Not to mention the possibility of them running spades on you even when everything goes well.

[whereagles]

Well, if pard were barred and you had to go all-in on a bid, what would it be? 3NT doesn't look so silly then

But yeah, it's an underbid.

[Zelandakh]

JLOGIC, on 2011-September-09, 18:23, said:

The second one perhaps depends on methods. If it starts:

2H 3H(strong minor, stopper ask) P 3S
P 4C

Is it normal to play 4C as forcing here Justin? What do we bid if we only had enough strength for 3NT opposite a stopper and would want to play in 4m otherwise? This was the reason for my choosing 5C at this point since I felt it was showing a stronger hand than 4C. If this is wrong then it is very helpful on those stronger hands!

[JLOGIC]

Zelandakh, on 2011-September-11, 03:19, said:

Is it normal to play 4C as forcing here Justin? What do we bid if we only had enough strength for 3NT opposite a stopper and would want to play in 4m otherwise? This was the reason for my choosing 5C at this point since I felt it was showing a stronger hand than 4C. If this is wrong then it is very helpful on those stronger hands!

No, you are absolutely right, I am pretty sure I was thinking partner bid 3N rather than 3S in which case 4C would obviously be forcing. I do not think 4C should be forcing over 3S, you might have just had 8 or 9 tricks and partner might not have anything useful (depending on your hand) so you shouldn't have to force to the 5 level.

I guess you could argue 3S shows values enough to force to game and with a bust responder should bid 4C, but it seems quite natural to bid KQxxx of spades which might be a source of tricks, or worth nothing, so I don't think this is true.

I think perhaps the right bid over 3S should be 4H to show a heart control and differentiate your hand from A xx AKx AKQxxxx or whatever. Then partner can finally ask about your minor, and would easily bid 6 on this hand.

I think 3H-3S-4C not being forcing is a point in favor of starting with double. The hand really is awkward, and I agree with you but there is a lot of overkill on the hand to make it easy to bid slam despite that I think (DKJ basically wasted, SKJ wasted... ).

BTW I say this every now and then in threads but when it's a "WHAT SHOULD OUR AUCTION BE?" thread I try and post without looking at the other replies first, then hopefully comment on the other peoples auctions. It is just too easy for me to become biased if I look at other peoples auctions first, but it probably would have led me to avoid saying that 3H-3S-4C is forcing

[JLOGIC]

han, on 2011-September-09, 16:32, said:

2.

(2H) - 6D - all pass.

Darn!

[FrancesHinden]

I think the first one is very tough.
I am known for my reluctance to open 2C, but this hand is making game opposite a balanced 0-count. Also, it's not particularly difficult to show the hand after opening 2C, and opening 1S doesn't really help you either.

I agree with 2C - 2D- 2S - 3S - 4H (long suit slam try) - 4S - 5D - ?
Now with xxx in hearts responder will sign off
With xx responder should make a another try with 5H (maybe he should have done over 4H), so perhaps he should with Jxxx as well - the J fits well with e.g. AK10x opposite

On the second one, while 2H 3H P 3NT P 4C is forcing, I am also not convinced that 2H 3H P 3S P 4C should be. I cannot bring myself to double with a singleton spade.


edit: Justin posted while I was typing this

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Stephen Tu, on 2011-September-07, 20:10, said:

Can you find a sequence to get to these slams while avoiding them if the hands were slightly different making slam anti-percentage?
1.Dealer South

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I would probably open 2♣ also, but if I did open 1♠ ( as Gonzalo, post # 2 ), then I have Bergen raises ( which apparently are out of favor on these forums ) , and the question of Responder's ♥ length is clarified -- although the whereabouts of the ♥Q is still unknown:

1S - 3C! ( lower Bergen )
3H ( ostensibly a help-suit game-try) - 4H ( 4 cards )
4NT ( 6 Ace-RKC ) - 5D ( 1/4 )
6S

[Zelandakh]

JLOGIC, on 2011-September-11, 03:35, said:

I think perhaps the right bid over 3S should be 4H to show a heart control and differentiate your hand from A xx AKx AKQxxxx or whatever. Then partner can finally ask about your minor, and would easily bid 6 on this hand.

I had not thought of bidding 4H here but on reflection it looks to be absolutely the right bid. Not only does it make getting to this small slam clearer but on another day it might enable reaching a grand. I am still not really sure if this route is better or worse than starting with a double, though.