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should I bid?

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2004-October-03, 01:11

 
MP's Vul=none
Dealer: West
Vul: None
Scoring: IMP
AQ3
K2
AJ943
972


West North East South

 1NT   2    Pass  ? 


1NT alerted as 15-17, playing with pick-up partner
How should I bid?

thanks,
jillybean
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#2 User is offline   Flame 

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Posted 2004-October-03, 02:02

I would pass it, first because its MP, second becasue its a pickup partner, third because no one is vul which is the best vul to act agressively over 1nt.
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#3 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2004-October-03, 05:09

3NT looks 100% clear cut to me.

Pd figures to have 6S or 5S and a decent enough hand.
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#4 User is offline   Dwayne 

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Posted 2004-October-03, 05:11

Pass? No thanks.

I think you have to make a serious game try on this hand. In a pick-up partnership this is implausible, so I suppose 3S is is the least or best of all evils.

Dwayne-erino.
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#5 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2004-October-03, 07:49

With a pick up partner, this is a real guess. Some people only overcall a strong NT on good hands, while others do it on total junk.

On such a random scenario, a 3S bid seems the most flexible bid here. If pard overcalled on junk he'll pass and 3S has a fair chance to make. If pard overcalled on a strong hand, he'll surely bid game.
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#6 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2004-October-03, 07:57

whereagles, on Oct 3 2004, 01:49 PM, said:

With a pick up partner, this is a real guess. Some people only overcall a strong NT on good hands, while others do it on total junk.

On such a random scenario, a 3S bid seems the most flexible bid here. If pard overcalled on junk he'll pass and 3S has a fair chance to make. If pard overcalled on a strong hand, he'll surely bid game.

3 seems wrong to me.

If partner has a good hand, NT by me is going to play as least as well as by partner, and you'll never get there if you support .

If you want to make a flexible bid, 2NT is more like it.

Eric
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#7 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2004-October-03, 08:44

i'd not pass... 3nt has a lot going for it, and 4s looks to lose 2 hearts and a diamond right off, with a club or 2 later... as for eric's 2nt, that depends on how pard interprets the bid... i think i'd bid 3nt
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#8 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2004-October-03, 08:48

Yes, you should probably bid.

The question is should you bid 3NT, 4S, 2NT, or 3S, given a new parternship. Assuming no pscyhe of 1NT, what can partner have? Given you have 14 hcp and opener around 16, that leaves only 10 hcp for partner. If you invite (2NT, 3S), I can not imagine him accepting the game try. So I eliminate 2NT and 3S as those end the auction and clearly 2S will be a better contract than either or those I believe.

So this comes down to 3NT, 4S or pass. Partner could have tried 3S at this vul with seven card suit and weak, so I think parnter is looking at something like 6 spades and 8 or 10 hcp. The spade king seems necessary for the light overcall, so We have 6SPADE tricks. The advantage of 3NT is it protects the heart King, the advantage of 4S is you can ruff a heart in your hand and you don't have a club stopper. I guess if I had to pick with a pickup partner, I would jump to 4S.

BTW, with most partners, I play 2NT here by me as a game try and forcing, looking for more information. With these partners I would bid 2NT and see if partner can bid 3C (then I bid 3NT). Partner with six spades, a minimum and some singleton would jump to game or with more than minimum but balanced, will rebid 3NT, so I am willing to stop in 3S with these guys if partner rebids 3S only.

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#9 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2004-October-03, 18:24

I figure the Kis wasted paper, and pass with a pickup partner.

With a familiar partner, I'd be able to invite.
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#10 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2004-October-03, 19:03

This is a tough call with a pickup partner, especially NV at MP's. We've all overcalled 2 on hands like: KJxxxx, xx, Qxx, xx at MPs. But even this motley collection gives a good play for game on a non-heart lead.

4 for me and apologize if its wrong.

I'd be surprised if 3N works out better than 4, but its possible I suppose.
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#11 User is offline   jdulmage 

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Posted 2004-October-03, 20:54

3 all day, see what happens.

3NT, I don't see a point, your partner is most likely short in the minors, you have no club stopper.

3 would be my bid, if partner has anything more, extra spade card, void, whatever, he will bid 4
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#12 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2004-October-03, 21:25

jdulmage, on Oct 4 2004, 12:54 PM, said:

3 all day, see what happens.

3NT, I don't see a point, your partner is most likely short in the minors, you have no club stopper.

3 would be my bid, if partner has anything more, extra spade card, void, whatever, he will bid 4

3S and see what happens? I think you'll still be waiting at Christmas to see what happens. 3S will end the auction and will leave your K of h unprotected.

You don't see the point of 3NT? Well opposite as little as
Kxxxxx xx Kx xxx, (and this is NOT a 2S bid!!), you have an excellent play if opening leader leads from AH
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#13 User is offline   nikos59 

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Posted 2004-October-04, 00:46

It is true that if one imposes to the opponents what
to lead, then a lot of contracts are cold, like the 3NT
proposed here :)

For my part, I would not dream of bidding. In fact, I would
be even more reluctant to invite etc. facing a regular partner!
Because I don't want to hang partner for trying to win the
partial and I don't want to instil bad habits to my partners.
With a pickup partner, I might think of bidding (this is already
an overbid, thinking I mean) just for the heck of it.

I have been collecting bridge hands for many years now.
Out of those thousands of hands, I have encountered
perhaps three cases where someone made 3NT after the opponent
opened a 15-17 1NT. In the two cases the defenders made
egregious error. The third declarer was a certain Jacek Pszczola
in the Maastricht Olympiad semifinal.

So, if your idea of bridge is that it pays to hunt for the 0,1%
exceptional case, then by no means go on -I will stick with
the 99,9%.

Nikos

PS That said, making game in a suit over opponents 1NT
is far more frequent, say 5%. But is this odds good enough?
After all, bridge is a game of odds.
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#14 User is offline   sceptic 

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Posted 2004-October-04, 02:38

I think I would pass, if I bid 3nt they could make 5 or more straight off if the clubs and hearts sit wrong ( the heart K is prob worthless

I think if tempted to bid, 3 spades is enough,

Pass is best option I think

(but at the table with my idiot head on, which is getting less and less these days)

I would bid 4 spades and think what the heck
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#15 User is offline   sceptic 

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Posted 2004-October-04, 02:45

thinking about it, I think 3nt is worse because

1/. opener would prob have Kx or Kxx spades

so once ur make ur K hearts he gets to play the hearts suit and may be enough to set you

2/. OR he may not have the spades he may have AKQxx clubs which is feasable

I always go down because I over estimate my hand when p over calls NT, so I reckon err on caution, if you are in imp match, I reckon some bid 3nt and go down some dont so you end with an average score (I hope) so pass and be safe
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#16 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2004-October-04, 03:24

I don't think there's soooo much urge in protecting the heart king. After all...

1. Pard may have the ace or queen
2. A heart might not be led trick one

Sure, it can happen, but I don't think the risk is high enough to justify distorting the bidding.
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#17 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2004-October-04, 03:35

"1/. opener would prob have Kx or Kxx spades"

I don't know with whom you normally play, but my partners do not overcall a 1NT contract missing the K when I have the AQx unless the have something like about 6 S to the JT9 and a decent 13-14 count, which is impossible on this layout.

To Nikos S I suggest if your partner overcalls a 16-18 NT to sieze the auction, then get a new partner.

Possible hands for my pd
Kxxxxx xx Kx Kxx or similar holdings. My main worry about the 3N bid is that pd is short in C and opener has AKQ of C.

Come to think of it I really am beginning to like 3D as a fnj.
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#18 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2004-October-04, 03:59

3 is not invitational but more like preemtive, so it can be easilly ruled out.

2NT is the invitational hand, the 2+ card support, problems is you haven´t coded the answers to this, but at least if he rebids another suit you can think of a 2 suiter and playing in a suit can be teh good idea.
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#19 User is offline   nikos59 

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Posted 2004-October-04, 04:23

The_Hog, on Oct 4 2004, 09:35 AM, said:

To Nikos S I suggest if your partner overcalls a 16-18 NT to sieze the auction, then get a new partner.

Possible hands for my pd
Kxxxxx xx Kx Kxx or similar holdings.



I really do not understand what you mean by "to seize the
auction" (or to sieze it if you so prefer).
In your example hand with the three kings, what is the
aim of the overcall?

For the rest, keep trying for the 1-in-a-million hand where
you can make 3NT after oppo open a strong 1NT. I am sure
that you will be delighted when you find it. In the meantime
your opponents will be very happy. :)

Nikos
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#20 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-October-04, 06:11

I think 3NT is the best game which has a possibility to make... Now, K is of some value, where as with any contract you'll probably get screwed over there.
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