[ggwhiz]

mis-click

[ggwhiz]

Matchpoints, very strong opponents.

I'm curious as to how you approach this playing with a very good intermediate partner. No agreements in particular for this kind of auction.

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3 clubs - pass - 3 hearts to you, you red vs white.

Sorry Mike, my first time trying to post a hand diagram AND auction and it ain't workin out.

[mike777]

ggwhiz, on 2011-August-10, 22:15, said:

Matchpoints, very strong opponents.

I'm curious as to how you approach this playing with a very good intermediate partner. No agreements in particular for this kind of auction.

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edit

I will try pass over 3h by rho.

[Mbodell]

ggwhiz, on 2011-August-10, 22:15, said:

Matchpoints, very strong opponents.

I'm curious as to how you approach this playing with a very good intermediate partner. No agreements in particular for this kind of auction.

---

3 clubs - pass - 3 hearts to you, you red vs white.

Sorry Mike, my first time trying to post a hand diagram AND auction and it ain't workin out.

There's something to be said for 3nt, but I think 4♥ should be natural and cleanest. Most people play X here when partner passed as T/O right? I have been jobbed by opponents with this sort of psyche before when playing in a pickup partnership.

[mich-b]

Since 3♥ is forcing (they would have alerted if they play 3♥ as non-forcing , since this is unexpected, wouldn't they?) , you can pass now and double (or bid 4♥) on the next round. It is not unlikely for LHO to raise to 4♥ (if indeed RHO is psyching).

[wank]

assuming RHO's psyched, partner's got a weak hand with short clubs. best to bid 4♥ now so we can get his input if the opps push on to 5♣.

[gnasher]

I think double shows a takeout double of clubs and 4♥ is natural - ie the same as what they would be if RHO had raised to 4♣, so that they can't gain by psyching.

I'm not that worried about the opponents bidding 5♣ - if RHO had a 5♣ bid he would have bid it already. That might make 3NT a possibility, because it needs only one specific card from partner. However, the cost of going down in 3NT will be much more than the cost of going down in 4♥, so I'd bid 4♥.

[wyman]

Not much to add except that every time I've convinced myself that RHO is psyching in this situation, he's shown up with (at least in the ballpark of) his bid. Something like:

xxx / -- / Jxx / QJ1098xx
opp
KQxx / AJxxx / Q / Axx

I'm not saying you shouldn't bid. Hell, you might make 4H anyway (say, if partner shows up with the diamond Q and things break nicely), so IMO you almost have to bid. But unless you know something about your opponent (as in this case, where you mention that they are very strong), I'd be inclined to discount the psyche.

[ggwhiz]

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We are on for 6♥ albeit pretty lucky and I made 660 for a bit above average.

Didn't like my 4nt bid much and really like the idea of passing 3♥ first to smoke them out (or not as wyman mentioned).

[jmcw]

It sure feels like East is fooling around!, but it's far from certain.
If you bid 3NT immediately it may go pass. pass. DBL. On a ♥ lead your -800, 4♥ will not fair much better if at all.

Call me a wimp but I'm passing....who knows the ops may be on their way to 4♥and I'm not inclined to beat them to it.

[chasetb]

S.J. Simon devoted Chapter 9 of Why You Lose At Bridge to psyching and how to deal with it. His advise is to treat the psych as real until proven otherwise, as more often than not the opponents will get into trouble (or keep you out of trouble). An example in the book was where he thought East was psyching in 3rd seat with the auction going Pass-(Pass)-1♠-(Pass by Simon)-2NT by responder [13-15 bal], where Simon had an opening hand with ♠KQJxxx. It turned out that responder psyched 2NT with a long ♣ suit, and E-W went -1100 in 3NT when there wasn't a making game N-S with decent defense.

Here, I definitely would pass, and when they try to stop in 4♣ or even 5♣ I will bid 4/5♥. With a good partner (or even a bad one so long as (s)he trusts you), I expect them to pass my bid unless their hand has a few Aces. Like jmcw said, on a different layout East could have a good hand with distribution opposite a sound pre-empt and have visions of making game, and you find yourself going down big in 4♥, when they could still end up in 4♥ (it is Matchpoints!).

One final note - trust partner's signalling/dicarding when on defense! I know of 3 times this past year where my partner believed a psych/semi-psych rather than me and cost us a few matchpoints (two were 3NT contracts where opener declared 3NT while psyching a 1M rebid, the third was in 3♥X after I opened a Strong Club and RHO bid 1♥ on QJxx; I never received my ♠ ruff).

[whereagles]

This is easy: DBL the 3♥ bid. This is a penalty dbl, meant to deal with this sort of situation. If you have a take out dbl, just pass and wait.

[JLOGIC]

I think 3N is pretty bad, we are almost guaranteed to have a heart fit when RHO chooses to psyche hearts, unless they're psyching the psyche and bid their long suit.

I do think it's an interesting question of whether to pass and hope LHO raises hearts so that we can try to defend 5C X, or whether to overcall immediately. Probably we don't have enough defense for that, so I like just overcalling (it will also be good if we have a slam and partner can move, though I'm not sure how likely that is to happen, so maybe it's irrelevant).

[xxhong]

This is a clear penalty double situation to dispose a psyche. Responder to a preempt often tends to psyche if you don't play a penalty double here.

ggwhiz, on 2011-August-10, 22:08, said:

mis-click

[gwnn]

There are two conflicting views on what X of 3♥ should mean. One says that X is just a penalty double, i.e. promising heart length, the other says that it is a takeout double of clubs. I think it's better to play X as short in clubs because when opps psyche like this, they just have club length and could have any major suit holding. So just like nobody plays

3♣-p-4♣-X as showing heart length/spade length and instead everyone plays it as a good hand with shortish clubs

, we should also play

3♣-p-3♥-X as showing a good hand with shortish clubs.

[rduran1216]

This is a psyche 90% of the time. Just bid 4H directly.

[ggwhiz]

I don't like my bidding at all.

My pard is very good as in intimidated by nothing but still intermediate. Might they look at their heart fit and think I had a big 2 suiter in the pointed suits?

Wrong thinking by me. In hindsight I like pass followed (probably) by 4♥.

[MrAce]

I'd pass if 3♥ is forcing. I have no agreement with pd about this 4♥ bid, he may as well go with the default idea of not passing a cue if thats how he takes.

I learnt one thing from pshyching opponents through the years, they give me more than they steal from me in exchange, if i only accept to pay them off when they hit the perfect hand available and not take it personal. Or when their psyche was smart, they will get paid, just like all opponents who gets paid for their very good bids or plays or defense.

But if i try to avoid it or solve their psyche, and take it personally " i do not get psyched, u can't fool me" and bid accordingly, then that means their psyche is really affecting my judgement, i used to this a lot, and caught them now and then, but then i found out that in the long run i started to pay them also in hands where they actually bid natural. I can confiodently say the situations like in this topic, where i was almost % 99 sure and could bet my paycheck on psyche, they turned out to be honest much more times than psyche and i was happy to remain silent.

Perhaps thats because i am too much IMP oriented and actually other way works better in mp, maybe people at the end of a session with poor results and no teammates to answer fools arround more than those at teamgames, idk.

[vianu2]

MrAce, on 2011-August-15, 17:31, said:

I'd pass if 3♥ is forcing. I have no agreement with pd about this 4♥ bid,....

The pass may not work very often. If 3H is forcing LHO will rebid 4CL or something else . Then now you will have to decide what to do over 5CL which is bad enough. When 3H is forcing and psyche and u pass,you will get psyched:)
I don't know how to bid if 3H is not forcing lol. That's a big problem for me. I still don't like to pass. X?