[Flem72]

Both vul, pairs:

P-P-2D-X
3D-P-P-X
P-3H-P-3S

What kind of hand do you expect from the 3S bidder?

If it now goes P-?

what is your call with

Q9xx
T9xx
xxx
Kx ?

Regards and Happy Trails,

Scott Needham
Boulder, Colorado, USA

[wank]

partner has showed a strong flexible take-out double with better spades than anything else.

with such good spades and a potentially priceless club holding i think you can try 4♦ en-route to 4s (thought it's certainly a stretch and requires pretty much a perfecto hand opposite). partner shouldn't take you for too much as you didn't act directly over the double despite being a passed hand.

---

fpr example is only 19 high but makes for a good slam

[cloa513]

wank, on 2011-July-22, 17:13, said:

partner has showed a strong flexible take-out double with better spades than anything else.

with such good spades and a potentially priceless club holding i think you can try 4♦ en-route to 4s (thought it's certainly a stretch). partner shouldn't take you for too much as you didn't act directly over the double despite being a passed hand.

---

fpr example is only 19 high but makes for a good slam

Except North can't hold the king of clubs as South holds it.

[wank]

cloa513, on 2011-July-22, 17:17, said:

Except North can't hold the king of clubs as South holds it.

oh ok the ace then, but now it's getting a little too 'perfecto' even for me lol

[inquiry]

I agree in principle with wank and the hand he suggest (king of club correction of course). If the doubler had strong hand with self-sufficient spade suit, he would bid 3♠ instead of the second double. Here I would suspect overcaller has modest heart support, good but only five spades, and is expecting partner to find the right bid.

[dake50]

I would have responsive doubled over 3D.
Now I have a monster for having passed and yet urged again.
4D.

[MrAce]

I agree with the previous posters about what dbl-dbl-3♠ means.


But isn't there something wrong with 3♥ bid ?

When pd holds, this (♣A) We seem to make slam

---

What about if pd did not have as strong hand, but this

---

then we would play a 4-3 ♥ fit at 3 level, when 4♠ is possibly cold. (Unless you want pd to bid exactly the way he did now with this too)

Qxxx xxxx xxx Kx , with 3 small ♦ and 4-4 majors, Kx ♣ 3♥ is underbid to me.

[the hog]

MrAce, on 2011-July-22, 20:55, said:

I agree with the previous posters about what dbl-dbl-3♠ means.


But isn't there something wrong with 3♥ bid ?

When pd holds, this (♣A) We seem to make slam

---

What about if pd did not have as strong hand, but this

---

then we would play a 4-3 ♥ fit at 3 level, when 4♠ is possibly cold. (Unless you want pd to bid exactly the way he did now with this too)

Qxxx xxxx xxx Kx , with 3 small ♦ and 4-4 majors, Kx ♣ 3♥ is underbid to me.

Partner cannot have your second hand as that is not a double followed by a S bid. That is a 2S overcall.

[MrAce]

the hog, on 2011-July-22, 22:13, said:

Partner cannot have your second hand as that is not a double followed by a S bid. That is a 2S overcall.

Thats not the point but if u are too obsessive

Give one ♠ to ♣ then, or

Give one ♣ to ♥ then, or

Make it a good old 4414

3♥ is still underbid for me.

EDIT: Recognized its pairs, perhaps ok at mp.

[gnasher]

I'd have bid 4♦ after the second double. Your hand has improved somewhat, and 4♦ ensures that we play in the right strain. Avoiding a poor 4-3 fit is a good idea at matchpoints as well as at IMPs.

In the actual auction, is Wank's 4♦ bid definitely a slam try? We've each made a non-forcing bid, so the auction says we're unlikely to make a slam. It seems to me that you might bid 4♦ as a choice of games, with either 2-5 in the majors or something like 2425.

[FrancesHinden]

gnasher, on 2011-July-23, 00:39, said:

I'd have bid 4♦ after the second double. Your hand has improved somewhat, and 4♦ ensures that we play in the right strain. Avoiding a poor 4-3 fit is a good idea at matchpoints as well as at IMPs.

In the actual auction, is Wank's 4♦ bid definitely a slam try? We've each made a non-forcing bid, so the auction says we're unlikely to make a slam. It seems to me that you might bid 4♦ as a choice of games, with either 2-5 in the majors or something like 2425.

I agree 4D is choice of games.

[OleBerg]

It's not that I feel I'm on familiar ground, bit couldn't 3♠ simply show a 4-card spade suit and a flexible hand. After all, we didn't bid 3♠ on 3♦. So with somthing like 4-3-1-5 or 4-2-1-6 we still can get to 3NT.

I agree with Gnasher's 4♦ after the second double. Even if you feel it's a slight overbid, it still solves all bidding problems on the weak hand.

If I see a chance to get my hand off my chest in bid, and that bid virtually inusres us getting to the right denomination, I make it whether it's an over- or underbid. In my opinion, this is very importent in competitive sequences. (So obviously I also agree 4♦ is choice of games.)

[whereagles]

3♠ = 5314-ish hand. Now 4♦, showing support and a good hand in context. I disagree as to it being choice of games.

[Flem72]

whereagles, on 2011-July-23, 07:18, said:

3♠ = 5314-ish hand. Now 4♦, showing support and a good hand in context. I disagree as to it being choice of games.

KTxxx
KJx
A
ATxx,

which I value at 16+. Now, two questions: (1)Is this hand too weak for the actions given and (2) is there a case that with this hand, or something like

KJxx
KQx
xx
AQJx, which I take as the "purer" equivilent, the two-double auction is only lookng for a better place to play? or are you, with this kind of hand, constrained to pass 3H, having picked your poison with a minimum?

It seems to me that other hands given or implied by responding posters above, like some variant of

AKTxx
AJx
x
AJTx (or stronger), would call 3S at the second turn, not the 3rd. OTOH, _must_ the two-double auction hand look like most posters seem to think it should,

AKxx
KQx
xx
AQJx,

Regards and Happy Trails,

Scott Needham
Boulder, Colorado, USA

[MrAce]

I disagree.

First of all you are wrong about all 16+ hands should start with DBL, overcalls work very well upto 18 hcps, and for some top experts there is no hand that is too good for overcall (i personally dont go that far but trying to make a point)

That 15 hcp which you consider 16+ you can overcall 2♠ or if u decide to start DBL then

A-You treat it as 16+ 5♠ hand and bid ♠ later, or

B-You treat it as 3 suiter hand with extras and make a 2nd DBL but not bid 3♠.

DBL-DBL-3♠ can not be this 15 hcp 5314

[whereagles]

Flem72, on 2011-July-23, 10:35, said:

KTxxx
KJx
A
ATxx,

which I value at 16+. Now, two questions: (1)Is this hand too weak for the actions given and (2) is there a case that with this hand, or something like

KJxx
KQx
xx
AQJx, which I take as the "purer" equivilent, the two-double auction is only lookng for a better place to play? or are you, with this kind of hand, constrained to pass 3H, having picked your poison with a minimum?

It seems to me that other hands given or implied by responding posters above, like some variant of

AKTxx
AJx
x
AJTx

(or stronger), would call 3S at the second turn, not the 3rd. OTOH, _must_ the two-double auction hand look like most posters seem to think it should,

AKxx
KQx
xx
AQJx

This is bit of a cultural matter and, being from Europe, my view might differ from other around. Anyway, with the hands above I'd probably:

KTxxx
KJx
A
ATxx

Dbl + dbl + pass 3♥.

KJxx
KQx
xx
AQJx

Dbl + dbl + pass 3♥. Yes, same auction as above. This is because I find that bidding over 3♥ should show considerable extras, as in 18+ or so.

AKTxx
AJx
x
AJTx

Dbl + dbl + bid 3♠ over 3♥.

AKxx
KQx
xx
AQJx

Dbl + dbl + either pass 3♥ or guess to raise to 4 depending on table presence and match status.

In any case I realize my current agreements aren't very well developed.

[mcphee]

I feel responder should take stronger action after 3D doubled, 3H is an underbid with every card working and facing short D in partners hand. Surely 4D letting partner pick his major can not be bad.

[xxhong]

Responder's 3H is a mistake. Should bid 4D to show a hand with some values that often produces a game and no preference on majors.
The double and 3S should show a really strong hand and semi-balanced or balanced in nature, at least 21 HCP usually. Any 21 HCP hands with 5-3-1-4 or 5-3-2-3 should be possible candidates.

Flem72, on 2011-July-22, 16:43, said:

Both vul, pairs:

P-P-2D-X
3D-P-P-X
P-3H-P-3S

What kind of hand do you expect from the 3S bidder?

If it now goes P-?

what is your call with

Q9xx
T9xx
xxx
Kx ?

Regards and Happy Trails,

Scott Needham
Boulder, Colorado, USA

[OleBerg]

Flem72, on 2011-July-23, 10:35, said:

KTxxx
KJx
A
ATxx

I simply find no reason not to start with 2♠. When the expected raise in diamonds comes around, I'll be happy to double, having described my distribution almost perfectly. This is troublesome if they raise to 5♦, but if they raise to 3♦ or 4♦, the dividends are huge. You can easily add 3 points withouth it getting me to change my mind.

Quote

KJxx
KQx
xx
AQJx

To me, this seems like a standard X-X

Quote

AKTxx
AJx
x
AJTx

Again, simply 2♠. Showing the distribution, thus giving us the best chances of finding the right denomination, is way more important than showing exact strength.

Quote

AKxx
KQx
xx
AQJx

X-X, and settle for partners choice. (Reflecting that I expect partner to stretch to bid 4♦ with 4-4 in the majors.)

[benlessard]

I prefer 2S to X but im ok with X. But the important point to understand is that you X because you have a 3 suiter not because you have a strong hand. So once you X you cannot bid S anymore (unless partner ask you to describe your hand)

X+X+3S is simply the worst way to bid this hand (should show a near GF hand at least a good 21 with only 5S)
X+S (at the lowest level) is a mistake also (should show 18-21 pts with a S suit that is not solid since i wasnt able to jump to 3S over 2D)
X+X is ok
2S+X is better

I i were in balancing seat than i would X rather than 2S but i would pass partner 3H response after my 2nd X.