[kgr]

MP's

---

ATB.
How to reach a better contract?
Remarks:
- We play 4D forcing. Not sure if this should be stronger then 5D because at MP's you can still be searching for 4NT?
(- According to our system, North did bid 1S (showing 4+H) iso 1H, but that doesn't matter).
Thanks,
Koen

[Cyberyeti]

kgr, on 2011-July-21, 03:31, said:

MP's

---

ATB.
How to reach a better contract?
Remarks:
- We play 4D forcing. Not sure if this should be stronger then 5D because at MP's you can still be searching for 4NT?
(- According to our system, North did bid 1S (showing 4+H) iso 1H, but that doesn't matter).
Thanks,
Koen

We would bid as follows:

1♦-1♥-2♦(guarantees 6)-2♥(relay)-3♥(3♥ non minimum)-4♦-4♥(asking aces)-5♦(2 with)-5N(no K, still interested in grand)-6N(can count to 12)

Given the 2♦ rebid, (partner won't have as many as 15 here by our methods), S almost certainly has exactly the high cards he actually has for the 5N try, in particular ♥Q, the problem for N is that if S is 2362, grands are no play, but 3-1 in the blacks, 7♥ may be good.

If anybody can find 7♥ I salute you (I very much doubt you'll get the diamond lead that is the only one to make it not worth bidding), 6N should be attainable though and failing that 6♦.

Edit: to critique your auction, the problem is 4♠, partner is pretty much bound to bid 5♦ with any hand without a club control (although I'm not sure which bids would ask for aces by your methods).

[benlessard]

In standarD its hard to bid 6D/6H and i would settle for 4H.

AKJx v s 3H & 6D should lead to 4H.

In my system at imps

1D--1H(relay)
1NT (6D any strenght or D+H 12-14)----2C (realy at least 9 pts)
2D (6D 12-14)----2H GF
3K (S stiff)-----3H (D keyc)
3NT (30)-------4H (K of clubs ? )
4S (No)--------4NT (Q of H ? )
5D (yes but no Q of Clubs)----7H

at MP ill keycard in H
3S---- 4NT (2+Q+Kd no kC) (3Nt by opener = 7D and only 2H)

PS the more i think about it the better i like H keycards, since 4H rate to be better than 5D most of the time

There is no problem with a D lead you only need to ruff 1S

[han]

It's not an easy hand to bid in standard, but it is not hopeless. North is making a slam try in diamonds without a club control. South also knows it is matchpoints, so perhaps south should bid it? South has limited his hand by bidding 2D, and he has 13 absolutely perfect highcards.

[Cyberyeti]

benlessard, on 2011-July-21, 06:19, said:

There is no problem with a D lead you only need to ruff 1S

They lead a diamond, you win, unblock the A♠, play say a heart to hand, ruff a spade, cash Q♥ now how do you get back to hand to draw trumps without playing a second diamond or overtaking Q♥. You have to play for either hearts 3-3 or diamonds 2-2 (or 3-1 with the hand with 1 only having 2 hearts).

[mike777]

kgr, on 2011-July-21, 03:31, said:

MP's

---

ATB.
How to reach a better contract?
Remarks:
- We play 4D forcing. Not sure if this should be stronger then 5D because at MP's you can still be searching for 4NT?
(- According to our system, North did bid 1S (showing 4+H) iso 1H, but that doesn't matter).
Thanks,
Koen

4d is a slam try

south has a huge hand given the bidding. I rkc in d now(4h kickback, not to play).

North could not have a worse hand.

[benlessard]

Yes your right about the comm problems.

Han if the 2D is limited and we are MP do you make a slam try in D or just bid a simple 4H. My reasoning is that if partner is minimum 4H is very close to be as good as 5D in making % but when you make overtrick its going to be a great MP contract.

If opener is maxi 4H look also like a great MP contract since overtrick are likely. Only when most of the field is in 6D making wich is highly unlikely or when 4H goes down while 5D makes.

[MrAce]

benlessard, on 2011-July-21, 09:58, said:

Yes your right about the comm problems.

Han if the 2D is limited and we are MP do you make a slam try in D or just bid a simple 4H. My reasoning is that if partner is minimum 4H is very close to be as good as 5D in making % but when you make overtrick its going to be a great MP contract.

If opener is maxi 4H look also like a great MP contract since overtrick are likely. Only when most of the field is in 6D making wich is highly unlikely or when 4H goes down while 5D makes.

I am not Han, but speaking for myself i can say you are right in general, especially if 2♦ by agreement has a small range limit. However this is not the case in std methods where 2 ♦ can be as low as 11 and as high as 16 hcp if opener has reasons to not make a jump rebid (such as poor suit quality and responder actually sees opener's suit quality problems in his own hand)

Also, responder has even more reasons to believe opener is not minimum, he has 3♥ and did not raise pd right away and rebid his ♦ while responder has the AQJ of them.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I like Cyberyeti's starting auction .
After Opener shows 3 cards Hts and not a bare minimum in reply to the Bourke Relay,
Responder's 4D then shows the real reason for the relay -- to make a GF, slammish interest in Diam.

Opener should not continue cuebidding and just bid kickback RKC ( a la Cyberyeti ) figuring Responder has at least 1 Ht Ctrl for his bidding.
But then I part ways. After finding all the key card plus the dQ, I would next make a specific K-ask and then a 2nd K-ask :
1D - 1H
2D - 2S!
3H! - 4D
4H! - 5D ( 2 + dQ )
5H! - 5NT ( hK, denying sK; NT shows the ask-for feature )
6C! - 6D ( no cK; if had the cK, would reply 6NT or 7C! w/both cKQ )
At this point Opener is a bit worried since he can only count 11 sure tricks:
1s, 3h ( does not know about the hJ ), 6d, 1c .

[kgr]

han, on 2011-July-21, 07:41, said:

It's not an easy hand to bid in standard, but it is not hopeless. North is making a slam try in diamonds without a club control. South also knows it is matchpoints, so perhaps south should bid it? South has limited his hand by bidding 2D, and he has 13 absolutely perfect highcards.

We agreed about this, but then how should North bid without the ♦Q: with ♦AJx?:
1♦-1♥
2♦-2♠! (2♠=Bourke Relay)
3♥-???
4♥/5♦?
3♠ would show a ♠-stopper and ask a ♣-stopper?

[han]

I'd definitely bid 4H with that.

[han]

benlessard, on 2011-July-21, 09:58, said:

Han if the 2D is limited and we are MP do you make a slam try in D or just bid a simple 4H. My reasoning is that if partner is minimum 4H is very close to be as good as 5D in making % but when you make overtrick its going to be a great MP contract.

I agree.

[han]

MrAce, on 2011-July-21, 13:58, said:

However this is not the case in std methods where 2 ♦ can be as low as 11 and as high as 16 hcp.

I don't often bid 2D with 16 highs, and certainly not when I also have 3 hearts. That hand has too much potential.

[MrAce]

han, on 2011-July-22, 03:58, said:

I don't often bid 2D with 16 highs, and certainly not when I also have 3 hearts. That hand has too much potential.

Yea but what u do and what not is irrelevant, it is std. There is no other way to bid them either, unless you have a special artificial agreement or jump with crappy suits.

Qxx
AQx
KJxxxx
A

[gnasher]

MrAce, on 2011-July-22, 09:36, said:

Yea but what u do and what not is irrelevant, it is std. There is no other way to bid them either, unless you have a special artificial agreement or jump with crappy suits.

Qxx
AQx
KJxxxx
A

That's a very awkward hand, but I can think of lots of other ways to bid it:
- Open 1NT
- Open 1♦ and rebid 2NT
- Open 1♦ and raise to 2♥
- Open 1♦ and raise to 3♥
- Open 1♦ and rebid 1♠

These are all unappealing for one reason or another, but I'd prefer any of them to 2♦.

[xxhong]

Responder need a way to show a D raise with very mild slam interest.
Opener need a way to show extra value and HQ.

In my system:
1D 1H
2D 3C(D fit, 4H, gf)
3S(showing SA and extra value, 3D would show min, also, 3S denies H controls) 4D(even number of KC, denies CA)
4H(HQ) 4N(DQ)
5C(CA) 6N

kgr, on 2011-July-21, 03:31, said:

MP's

---

ATB.
How to reach a better contract?
Remarks:
- We play 4D forcing. Not sure if this should be stronger then 5D because at MP's you can still be searching for 4NT?
(- According to our system, North did bid 1S (showing 4+H) iso 1H, but that doesn't matter).
Thanks,
Koen

[MrAce]

Sorry deleted nonsense.

[whereagles]

hmmm... seems like the methods can't find out where the hcps are, so I don't see any way out other than taking a flier at 6 on grounds that 5m is a bad MP core.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

North has the option to bid 3S over 3H.

This usually asks for a half stopper, since showing
3 card support for partners major has priority over showing
the stopper, 3H did not deny a heart stopper.

And 4D is certainly forcing, it is investigating 6D.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Lurpoa]

han, on 2011-July-22, 03:55, said:

I'd definitely bid 4H with that.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥



Why ?