[MrAce]

Years ago i read an article written by Vish Viswanathan in Bridge World mag. i suppose, and had the chance to play with him on okb couple times.

Basically, the idea was suggesting, after 1 minor openings and 1NT responses, the reverse hands should show the shortness instead of side 4 card major suit. Also after 1 minor - 2 NT responses.

If opener has a strong balanced hand, he can estimate the potential of the combined hands immediately and contract for the right number of NT. However, if he a strong unbalanced hand then the partnership may belong either in NT or in a suit strain from 3-level to 6-level, depending on the extent of duplication in the short suit.
The natural reverse in order to get to a Moysian game is ineffective since the long trump hand wil have the shortage. The bid is better used to indicate shortage so that the responder can immediately assess the duplication. In most cases, the fit is presumed since opener has announced his long suit.

A typical auction proceeds as follows:
1♦-1 NT -2♥. Shows singleton or void in hearts and a strong hand. The opener is at least 1-5-4-3 in
distribution. Since the heart ace is the key card, responder bids as follows:
3♥ - showing HA. If opener is void, he is apprised of the duplication.
2NT - Kxx or better in hearts
3NT - Hearts double stopped KQT or better. Maximum hand.
3♦ - No heart stopper min hand.
4♦ - No heart values, maximum
2♠ - Spade card agreeing diamonds
3♣ - Natural non-forcing.
4♣ - Maximum with clubs

In short, responder signals duplication if it exists or bids quantitatively if there is none.

After splinter over 2NT, responder has less room but he is able to make the key decision of whether or not to play 3NT.

1♦ - 2NT - 3♣ For the sake of consistency, this is also a splinter. If opener has a genuine minor two-suiter , he has a lot of options. With weak hands, he can either pass or sign-off in 3♦. With a good hand he can indicate his shortage first and still get to a club contract if there is a better fit there. If he is 2-2-5-4 with values, 3NT is still probably the best game.

While responder will almost always have club values/length, the splinter helps the investigation for the best contract.

1♦ - 1NT - 2♣ This is also a splinter. If opener has a weak minor 2-suiter, opponents have a major fit which they will find on this auction. Therefore the bid is useless as a natural, weak sign-off. 1m - 1NT - 3m, 1♦ - 1NT - 3♣. Since opener can show all strong hands at the 2-level, these bids are used as sign-offs. 3m is usually a 6-card suit, but 1♦ - 1NT - 3♣ can be as little as 4-4 with a singleton major. A fit is guaranteed, and opponents will have to balance at the three level.

When i shared this idea , Ira Chorush, made some suggestions, here i copy and paste what he said;


Timo, you can improve the efficiency of this device greatly. There are two purposes that you might like to serve: 1) allow yourself to show 6-5 hand of varying strength and 2) convey more information about whether the shortness is singleton or void. Consider 1D-1NT-2H; let 2S ask; then

2NT = some void
3C asks
3D,3H,3S are low middle high voids
3C = some singleton
3D asks
3H,3S,3NT are low middle high singletons
3D = Diamond one suiter with no singleton too good for 3 diamonds
3H = 5 hearts 6 diamonds, weak hand x AQxxx KQxxxx NF

If using this ID-1NT-3H becomes a good 6-5 hand that could have a slam x AQJxx AKQxxx x

This is an example. It makes use of the Fibonacci aspect of relay systems. Now, 1D-1NT-2S
is not necessary to show a singleton spade, so you can choose to make it a weak 6-5 in diamonds
and spades and 1D-1NT-2C can be natural. It is not a good enough reason, in my opinion to say that if 2 clubs is natural the opponents would be competing anyway. I have very high standards for jump shifts so I would open 1 diamond and rebid 2 clubs with as much as Ax x AKxxx KQxxx .

It gets harder over 1 minor-2NT. Here I might choose to make 3C all singletons/voids so that 3D can
ask and all the responses can be gotten in below 3NT. If you do that you can have the responder use the next step not including 3NT to ask singleton or void.

Just some thoughts. You have an interesting idea.

Ira

(For the record, this idea belongs to Vish, not to me)

What are your thoughts ?

[Fluffy]

the idea is very good, but the frequency is very low IMO, I get hands that wanna describe after 1m-1NT twice a year I think.

[bluecalm]

Yeah, the idea is somewhat known in Poland. Especially after 2NT o some competitive situations.
For example Martens gives example of:
1♣ 1♥ 2♠* pass
3♣ pass 3D/H/S = shortness

or:

1♣ 1♥ 2♠ pass
2NT (18-20) pass - and again 3D/3H/3S = shortness here.

*2S = transfer to 6+clubs

Also people here play:

1D - 1S
2D - 2NT* = asking for shortness and support, not for 4card side suit.

In general shortness is more important information than side suit. Many conventions were built around this idea, one more which just comes to my mind is:

1m - 1M
2M and now you show shortness directly or ask for shortness via 2NT instead of usual help suit game tries.
This is much better but again very low frequency.

This is usual dillema: introducing this kind of conventions gives you negligible advantage but the risk of forgetting and memory overload increas risks of disaster or getting tired faster.

Btw, as to original idea of reverse at 2 level I don't like it. If you play classically you still could have 6D-5M there and also:
1D - 1N
2C ; I don't agree that they would always find a major. Being able to bid natural 2C especially vulnerable is important imo.

[relknes]

Is it a problem at all that this alerts the opponents to the fact that they have at least a 9 card fit in that major? after 1♦-1NT-2♥ for instance, partner has at most 3 hearts, and I have at most 1... seems like it suggests a sacrifice for the opponents.

[kayin801]

sohcahtoa and I use 1♦-1NT-2M, 1♦-2NT-3M, and similar bids in some inverted minor situations in the way you describe, but we play a limited 1♦ opening, and so we use it to probe for minor suit games and/or the best strain when opener has a max distributional hand with the minors (i.e 5-5 or 5431 15 count). We like it. We don't do anything special over it since we're limited and opener has pretty much described their hand at this point, but it gets us to the correct strain more often than not.

relknes: in Timo's context his side has the majority of the points, and it will frequently not be safe for the opponents to come in. The person who holds the hearts could always have a couple honors there anyway, and they're going for a number against our NT or sometimes against no game!

[MrAce]

relknes, on 2011-March-05, 13:33, said:

Is it a problem at all that this alerts the opponents to the fact that they have at least a 9 card fit in that major? after 1♦-1NT-2♥ for instance, partner has at most 3 hearts, and I have at most 1... seems like it suggests a sacrifice for the opponents.

There was a reason why i posted Ira's suggestions

MrAce, on 2011-March-05, 03:40, said:

When i shared this idea , Ira Chorush, made some suggestions, here i copy and paste what he said;


Timo, you can improve the efficiency of this device greatly. There are two purposes that you might like to serve: 1) allow yourself to show 6-5 hand of varying strength and 2) convey more information about whether the shortness is singleton or void. Consider 1D-1NT-2H; let 2S ask; then

2NT = some void
3C asks
3D,3H,3S are low middle high voids
3C = some singleton
3D asks
3H,3S,3NT are low middle high singletons
3D = Diamond one suiter with no singleton too good for 3 diamonds
3H = 5 hearts 6 diamonds, weak hand x AQxxx KQxxxx NF

If using this ID-1NT-3H becomes a good 6-5 hand that could have a slam x AQJxx AKQxxx x

This is an example. It makes use of the Fibonacci aspect of relay systems. Now, 1D-1NT-2S
is not necessary to show a singleton spade, so you can choose to make it a weak 6-5 in diamonds
and spades and 1D-1NT-2C can be natural. It is not a good enough reason, in my opinion to say that if 2 clubs is natural the opponents would be competing anyway. I have very high standards for jump shifts so I would open 1 diamond and rebid 2 clubs with as much as Ax x AKxxx KQxxx .

It gets harder over 1 minor-2NT. Here I might choose to make 3C all singletons/voids so that 3D can
ask and all the responses can be gotten in below 3NT. If you do that you can have the responder use the next step not including 3NT to ask singleton or void.

Just some thoughts. You have an interesting idea.

Ira

[MrAce]

Fluffy, on 2011-March-05, 08:25, said:

the idea is very good, but the frequency is very low IMO, I get hands that wanna describe after 1m-1NT twice a year I think.

1m-1NT-Reverse or short suit hands do not really come very often i agree, but when u use this treatment, u can also use it in single suited strong or intermediate minor hands by opener. This will increase the frequency.

This treatment is not requiring to change something that comes more often anyway. It suggests to express a hand type in a different way than std way. Both std and this suggested treatment shows big minor hands by opener.

Some may argue that, showing pattern (bidding side 4 card M) here works better for pd tp determine. The problem with that, bidding side 4 card major says nothing to partner about the quality of this major;

♠x ♥Axxx ♦AKJTx ♣KQx bids 2♥ after 1 NT
♠x ♥AKQx ♦AKJTx ♣xxx also bids 2♥ after NT in std methods and can get tricky to determine.