[blackshoe]

Partner asked me this question tonight, and we didn't have much time to discuss it. Suppose you have some hand with a four card major, a six card minor, and slam interest, and partner opens 1NT. How do you bid it? Partner opined you should start with Stayman, and maybe you should, but we play 4 suit transfers, so you could certainly start with a transfer to the minor, too. Either way, how do you follow up?

Side question: we discussed splinters after 1NT-2♣-2M (where we have a fit). We ran into a snag with a jump to 4♣, though, since if that's a splinter, it's not Gerber, and if it's not Gerber we have no ace ask (since 4NT is quantitative). So what should 4♣ be, after we find a major suit fit?

[hotShot]

I think, that if you can transfer to the minor you should. We play that bidding a new suit, after partner executed the transfer, is natural and at least GF. Partner can bid 3NT, 4M and 5m with minimum hands or show first round controls in the remaining 2 side suits.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

blackshoe, on 2011-March-05, 03:24, said:

So what should 4♣ be, after we find a major suit fit?

4♣! = Major suit fit, RKC-Gerber.

There have been at least 2 threads on this question in the past month or so.

Here is a popular slamtry structure again:

1NT - 2♣
2M - ??

M-fit
3oM! = splinter somewhere, next step "asks"
4♦! = no splinter, artifical slam invite
4♣! = RKC-Gerber

NO fit
3m! = 4oM / 5+minor, slammish
4NT! = 4oM, Quantitative

[TWO4BRIDGE]

( double post )

[Vampyr]

blackshoe, on 2011-March-05, 03:24, said:

Side question: we discussed splinters after 1NT-2♣-2M (where we have a fit). We ran into a snag with a jump to 4♣, though, since if that's a splinter, it's not Gerber, and if it's not Gerber we have no ace ask (since 4NT is quantitative). So what should 4♣ be, after we find a major suit fit?

My favourite partner and I play that after 1NT-2♣-2M, 3 of the other major is a hand to good to raise to 4M. Now a later 4NT bid will be Blackwood.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Vampyr, on 2011-March-05, 07:36, said:

My favourite partner and I play that after 1NT-2♣-2M, 3 of the other major is a hand to good to raise to 4M. Now a later 4NT bid will be Blackwood.

When Sp are trump ( 1NT - 2C, 2S - ?? ), I assume you play 4C!/4D!/4H! are splinters.

But when Hts are trump ( 1NT - 2C, 2H - ?? ), how do you bid a Sp-splinter if 3S!-jump = " a hand too good for a 4H raise " ?

[Vampyr]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-March-05, 08:00, said:

When Sp are trump ( 1NT - 2C, 2S - ?? ), I assume you play 4C!/4D!/4H! are splinters.

But when Hts are trump ( 1NT - 2C, 2H - ?? ), how do you bid a Sp-splinter if 3S!-jump = " a hand too good for a 4H raise " ?

We have never felt the need for a Spade splinter, but we play weak NT, so all of our super self raises come up less frequently than with strong NTers. One thing you could do is load up the 3♠ bid, either making it a puppet to 3NT, after which responder shows certain hand-types; or by having opener make Romex-style responses. Another thing that could be helpful is using another bid to ask for aces... how do you play 1NT-2♣-2♥-4♠?

[Fluffy]

This discusion has arised a lot latelly on BBF.

Some poeple (me included) play that after stayman 3 in other major is a slam try with no shortness (or perhaps spade shortness)

More advanced partnerships play something called Baze, where 3 Other major shows any splinter hand (next step asks), 4♣ is ace asking bid and 4♦ is a no shortness slam invitation.


About how to start this is rather easy: always stayman with 4-6 unless the hand screams not to (AKxx x Kx KQJ10xx, you will always want to play in clubs, so transfer to clubs and then splinter is the way to go).

[jules101]

After

1N 2♣
2M 3OM showing slam interest in pard's major...


.... is 1N opener obliged to cooperate?

.... or may they sign off with grotty minimum?


[Sorry - initial typo - put in 2OM in error! Duh]

[Stephen Tu]

For 4M 6m, most people start with stayman then bid minor if opener doesn't bid your major. If you play minor transfers, most play that follow up suit bids are shortness, not suits. This is arguably more useful/common for opener's evaluation. And if you do play transfers, then stayman followed by minor can basically guarantee 4 cds other major since you don't need it for minor one suiters.

[Vampyr]

jules101, on 2011-March-05, 14:24, said:

After

1N 2♣
2M 2OM showing slam interest in pard's major...

err... this usually shows an invitational hand with 4 cards in the OM.

[mike777]

blackshoe, on 2011-March-05, 03:24, said:

Partner asked me this question tonight, and we didn't have much time to discuss it. Suppose you have some hand with a four card major, a six card minor, and slam interest, and partner opens 1NT. How do you bid it? Partner opined you should start with Stayman, and maybe you should, but we play 4 suit transfers, so you could certainly start with a transfer to the minor, too. Either way, how do you follow up?

Side question: we discussed splinters after 1NT-2♣-2M (where we have a fit). We ran into a snag with a jump to 4♣, though, since if that's a splinter, it's not Gerber, and if it's not Gerber we have no ace ask (since 4NT is quantitative). So what should 4♣ be, after we find a major suit fit?

1) stayman and if pard does not hit your major then rebid the minor as game force and natural.
2) How to Ace ask discussed in other thread but yes:
1nt=2c
2M=?

4c or 4d are splinters.

3OM agrees 2M is trump and asks for cuebids.

if h are trumps 4s is rkc
if s are trumps 4h is rkc
4nt is quant.

[jules101]

Vampyr, on 2011-March-05, 16:17, said:

err... this usually shows an invitational hand with 4 cards in the OM.

Yes - you correct. Typo from me - post above edited.

After

1N - 2C
2M - 3OM

.... what does opener do with grotty min? Are they obliged to cooperate? etc etc etc

[TWO4BRIDGE]

jules101, on 2011-March-06, 02:42, said:

After

1N - 2C
2M - 3M

.... what does opener do with grotty min? Are they obliged to cooperate? etc etc etc

3M is invitaional.

So, I have come up with an alternative way to reach 3M where Opener is "obliged to cooperate" .

1NT - 2C
2S - 3C!( Puppets to 3D! )
3D! - ??

a) 3H! = no Sp fit, but have 4h / 5+c

b) 3S! = Sp fit , and need Ctrl cuebids

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

We start with Stayman.

If you have a major suit, you stay slightly lower, which simplifies
slam auctions, if a major suit fit exists:

1NT - 2C
2H - 2S (*)

or

1NT - 2C
2S - 2H (*)

(*) forcing raise of the major

If you start with the minr, when the major suit fit is agreed, you already
reached the 4 level.

There is no difference with regards to the minor suit, unless you play
2 under transfer, i.e. you have a superaccept below the shown minor suit.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[blackshoe]

For my regular partner and I, your first auction shows 4 spades (we play 4 suit transfers). Your second auction is illegal.

[P_Marlowe]

blackshoe, on 2011-March-15, 11:59, said:

For my regular partner and I, your first auction shows 4 spades (we play 4 suit transfers). Your second auction is illegal.

Ok - yes, I was shortly thinking, that there was something, I could not
remember, but there was someting, so replace 2S and the illegal bid with
with bidding 3 of the other major.

The argument still holds.

With kind regards
Marlowe