[benlessard]

(2m weak)----2S-----(P)------???

I dont see why we shouldnt play transfer advances here right ?

Even experienced partnership might forgot because it wont happen often however.

[bluecalm]

One reason might be that holding xx KJx KTxx KTxx
You don't want pass nor you want bid 3nt.

I am not saying transfers are useless here. I am saying that the cost is useful natural call which you no longer have applying transfers.

[benlessard]

no 2Nt is before the cuebid so its natural. Same rules applies to 1 level , before the cue its nat cue and + its transfers

[awm]

If I play transfer advances of overcalls (which I do in some partnerships and not in others) then I would certainly play them here. It's pretty common to have a hand where you have a bunch of hearts and some values, but a misfit for spades and not enough to be happy forcing game. Same sort of thing comes up after (2♦)-3♣. This way you can transfer to your suit, get to play there if partner has a minimum and no real fit, and get to four of your major when partner has a fit or to game when partner has a max in any case. Otherwise you're probably stuck overbidding 3♥ and hoping that disaster doesn't ensue (and if it is a disaster, LHO is often well-positioned to double).

The one thing that occasionally comes up is that you want to have a sort of "stopper ask" bid available on generally good hands without clear direction. Without the transfer advances, I think the cuebid sort of does double-duty as both the "game force no clear direction" and the "strong raise" hand with the understanding that partner will try 3NT on a fairly flat overcall with control of the enemy suit (allowing you to pass or correct to 4♠). It may be worth discussing which sequence takes this role in your transfer advances -- you could easily play 3♥ "transfer to spades" in this way, or you could transfer to another suit and then cuebid, or you could play that the cheapest suit call always does double-duty (so here 3♣), but it's nice to have some agreement about this.

[Mbodell]

I also play transfer advances in these situations. They are nearly free and powerful. The downside (which IMO is slight in terms of frequency) comes up like awm indicates when you get around 3nt.

2♥-3♦ and now the "strong raise" is 4♣ which is above 3nt.

[benlessard]

surprised ive never seen or thought about this before. Its seems clearcut better. I dont remember where ive read about transfers advance the first time but im pretty sure there was no examples for 2 level overcall.

Quote

The one thing that occasionally comes up is that you want to have a sort of "stopper ask" bid available on generally good hands without clear direction. Without the transfer advances, I think the cuebid sort of does double-duty as both the "game force no clear direction" and the "strong raise" hand with the understanding that partner will try 3NT on a fairly flat overcall with control of the enemy suit (allowing you to pass or correct to 4♠). It may be worth discussing which sequence takes this role in your transfer advances -- you could easily play 3♥ "transfer to spades" in this way, or you could transfer to another suit and then cuebid, or you could play that the cheapest suit call always does double-duty (so here 3♣), but it's nice to have some agreement about this.

Thanks a lot !

[Free]

I've played this in the past, even at higher levels, but I don't do it anymore. You need a general forcing bid without fit and without stopper. This bid should be as low as possible imo.

For example, 2♣-2♠-3♣ as a general force is way better than to use 2♣-2♠-3♥ as a general force. That's why we don't play this anymore. The general force is pretty rare, but if it comes up you want as much bidding space as possible.

Moreover transfer advances don't solve any big problems here imo.

[dake50]

Keep one transfer structure for all cases(overcall,T/O X, jump special, We opened/They opened) in competition as it reduces memory load.
AND makes all auctions defined without an individual discussion for each case.
Bonus it fixes the forcing/invite/quits question: accept xfer on min, jump accept likes, other is exceptional hand.
SEE the help-suit: X-fer, then support.
SEE the control raise: X-fer then slam try.
SEE the stop have/miss: X-fer then NT.

[rbforster]

There's a recent BW article on the topic of transfer advances over preempts, including 3 level preempts. They discuss a fairly standard framework, but have some nice tweaks too. For example, 3♠ and 4♣ are often swapped so that 3♠ is a transfer to a minor (whichever isn't bid), while 4♣ is a transfer to spades. This allows you to get partner to bid 3N with a stopper when you have a decent minor-oriented advance without getting too high. I'll post more details when I've got my copy in front of me.

[rbforster]

Rob F, on Aug 24 2010, 05:41 PM, said:

There's a recent BW article on the topic of transfer advances over preempts, including 3 level preempts...

The article is by Frank Lipinski and his rules are summarized as follows:

(2-3 level preempt) - direct overcall at 2-3 level - (P) - ?

bidding along the lines of 1 level transfer advances -

- suit bids below the cheapest cue are natural and F1 (** except maybe 3♠)
- suit bids starting with cue are transfers, up to the single raise of partner (which is natural) (** except maybe 3♠)
- if 3♠ is a new suit below the cuebid, 3♠ shows the unbid minor and 4♣ shows spades (i.e. (after (3m)-3red-(P)-? 3♠=om and 4♣ = ♠)

He suggests the following general treatments:

- advancer's other bids
.......transfers may be trying to bail out into his own long suit
.......2N/3N/4N by advancer are all natural
........jumps in new suits are slam invitational raises to taste (splinters, fitted, etc)

- overcaller's rebid
........accept the transfer with a misfit (default rebid)
........jump acceptance of a transfer shows a good hand in support of that suit
........3N natural
........own suit rebid shows a very good suit

- advancer's rebid
.......after a new suit transfer: returning to overcaller's suit = choice of games, 4th suit is natural, cue is strong no-direction, 4N is RKC for advancer's transfered suit
.......after a transfer raise of partner: new suits are cues, 4N is RKC

He also suggests the following more complicated-but-useful additions to the above rules:

- Extend the special treatment of 3♠ by advancer after (2♠)-3♥-(P)-3♠ is a stopper ask with either minor. Partner bids 3N with a stop and 4m as pass/correct.
- He likes having two invitational ranges to raise partner (due to wide-ranging overcalling strengths). Instead of playing a standard approach where a simple raise of partner's overcalled suit as a weak invite and the transfer raise as the good invite or better, play the direct raise as the NF good invite and the transfer raise as either the weak invite or GF+.

[hanp]

You have to be rather blind not to see arguments for why you should not play transfer advances after a preempt.

Apologies for the double (triple?) negative.