[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 Pass  1♣    4♠    Pass
 Pass  5♣    Dbl   Pass
 Pass  Pass  

[Cyberyeti]

If N is going to reopen, do so with a double, 4Sx ain't going to make, and if partner does move it, 5H is going to be a lot cheaper than 5C.

[blackshoe]

What he said.

[gwnn]

North's 5C is utterly preposterous. AJ9xxx is not a 5-level suit to bid, especially as you alreadlt implied 4 in it. I agree that with 0436 you should double and not 5♣, but I think Cyberyeti forgot to clarify how bad double from North would have been. It would have been a crazy action to take; you need significant extras to double as opener on the 4 level.

110% N. Some blame has to go to East as well for his crazy 4S bid.

[billw55]

5♣ very very bad

This is so obvious that I believe you already know it Jilly. Trying to convince someone else maybe?

[jjbrr]

E is completely nuts. N should either double or pass.

[Bbradley62]

Are y'all exonerating South? He has a clear double of 4♠, which would prevent his partner from doing anything unfortunate.

[gwnn]

No he doesn't. Too weak, no matter what the double means.

[Cyberyeti]

Bbradley62, on Jul 2 2010, 09:44 AM, said:

Are y'all exonerating South?  He has a clear double of 4♠, which would prevent his partner from doing anything unfortunate.

If you happen to play double for penalties, which I would only do if I knew what this particular player overcalled 4♠ on, otherwise X=T/O is miles better.

[mikeh]

Bbradley62, on Jul 2 2010, 09:44 AM, said:

Are y'all exonerating South?  He has a clear double of 4♠, which would prevent his partner from doing anything unfortunate.

This is a topic that has been discussed a number of times, including recently in, I think, the A/E forum. Most experienced players use double of 4♠ as card showing, with values that will be useful on offence if partner has a shapely hand and on defence if partner is balanced or semi-balanced. It absolutely does not suggest a trump stack. Opener is supposed to pull with distribution (and little defence) but to pass with balanced or semi-balanced hands.

Since on this auction S should suspect that North, if he pulls, may be running to clubs, S cannot double. He doesn't have the strength, generally, either but he should be expecting N to be very short in spades, and therefore likely to run and with a typical 1=3=3=6 or 0=3=3=7, will run to clubs.

Meanwhile, after the appropriate pass by S, North is nuts to bid again.

A double caters to a penalty double type hand in S...as with negative doubles, when responder has to pass with a pure penalty hand, there is some pressure on opener to reopen. But the higher the level of reopening, the more that is needed.

N simply doesn't have what it takes to reopen at this level. If he did (void KQxx Axx AQxxxx would be a clear reopening, as one example), double is heads and shoulders above a bid of a suit....responder can scramble via 4N if need be.

East, as others have pointed out, made an idiotic bid that worked. Note that had he made a more normal 1♠ bid, the auction would likely end in either 5♥ by N down at least 1 (usually only 1) or 4♠ doubled by East, going down at least 1. So the crazy 4♠ call randomized the results.

[jillybean]

I was South here. I think 5♣ is awful, my partner had only one comment to make... "No X P??!!"
I'm happy to say this was not my r/l partner

[aguahombre]

Yeh, Jilly...Print out Mikeh's thing and show it to him. Alternatively --if you are not playing with him again --- let it go, so you keep the advantage when you play against him.

[jdonn]

Bbradley62, on Jul 2 2010, 09:44 AM, said:

Are y'all exonerating South?  He has a clear double of 4♠, which would prevent his partner from doing anything unfortunate.

South doesn't have a double of 4♠, but regardless how would it stop north from making the same ridiculous 5♣ bid?

[nigel_k]

It just looks like North is playing penalty doubles and South is not. South's method is of course better but the real problem is the lack of agreement. If playing penalty doubles, South should double. Bidding with North's is wrong regardless but is more attractive if he 'knows' partner doesn't expect to beat 4♠.