[nigel_k]

I agree that North should not pass 3NT on the actual hand, but the contract is bad even if north has a more mundane hand like AQxxx x Ax KQxxx so there's still an issue with the methods. I agree with 3♦ also being pass and correct (obviously with club length) to get around this problem.

[Crunch3nt]

bonxie, on Jun 21 2010, 03:39 AM, said:

If playing minors as pass and correct then the South hand is an obvious 3♦ bid.

Even opposite a weak 55 in clubs and spades the south hand is huge, while it's pretty hopeless opposite spades and diamonds, exactly what a 3♦ bid says

North then knows of the genuine club support and relatively short spades (no spade raise) and is off to the races. I think 7♣ will be hard to reach since N will be concerned about the third diamond but 6 should be trivial

Excellent analysis pinpointing the issue. Given these methods 3D was a much better call.

Re methods, playing specific Michaels would have helped a lot here too.

[andy_h]

This would be a non-problem if 3♦ was pass or correct but I have a feeling it's an inv+ raise in spades...kfay?

[gwnn]

i blame kfay

[kfay]

andy_h, on Jun 22 2010, 08:47 AM, said:

This would be a non-problem if 3♦ was pass or correct but I have a feeling it's an inv+ raise in spades...kfay?

yeah but now i've altered this over (1♥)-2♥

[Crunch3nt]

Normally with invite in spades you go via 2NT (round here anyways), If 3D is not Pass or correct, then 2NT must be South's correct bid?

[mikeh]

I agree with almost everything josh wrote.

let me add: the reason we used Michaels was (I assume) in anticipation of showing a monster 2-suiter. While 3♥ shows the monster bid, it leaves our minor concealed.

Since advancer rates to have a decent fit for clubs more often than not, and since we can see a lot of slam potential opposite such a fit, it surely behooves us to at least give the poor guy a chance to bid co-operatively. None of the calls through 3N have allowed him to do that, since we have not yet shown our club suit.

Passing 3N was a huge mistake. It is the kind of bid that suggests we have gone from optimistic (Michaels and cue) to pessimistic...and there is nothing about the auction that suggests we make this change.

[hanp]

Having thought about this some more (and more importantly, listening about it to jlall), I am now convinced that it is much better to play the same responses to 3C as over 2NT. So 3H would show a big hand with clubs, 3S would show a big hand with diamonds. Justin claims this is standard but I must admit I had never thought about it.

It would still be bad not to double initially with this 3-suiter, but at least you would easily find your club fit.

[gszeszycki]

Dealer: West
Vul: E/W
Scoring: IMP
♠ AQxxx
♥
♦ AKx
♣ KQJ9x

♠ 10
♥ QJxx
♦ xx
♣ A10xxxx

1♥-2♥-(P)-3♣
P-3♥-P-3NT
All Pass


3♣ is pass or correct for the minors. 2NT would have been a game try in either minor.

I guess this isn't really an ATB, but please propose an alternate auction starting with 2♥, since I know that now that everyone has seen both hands they'll be like 'obv I'd double, not bid 2♥'

your auction got started off wrong not because of michaels but because of huge 3c underbid. Best bid by S is 3d pass or correct. This would show a club raise but a willingness to let bidding die if michaels bidder has diamonds. If you switched your 2 minors around you would have a nice 3c bid.

rest of my auction would proceed after 1h 2h p 3d p
3h maybe asking for heart stopper for nt
3n ok i have heart stopper
4c I was just kidding about nt I have huge hand with clubs and 3h was a cue bid
4s cue bid the huge club length definitely improves this hands slam worthiness.
---could have bid 4n to sign off with a simple club raise.
5h this could be exclusion blackwood or a cue bid obviously asking for a top trump
----honor (a or k) no matter which way we will arrive in
7c.