[thebiker]

IMP Vul versus NVul

Dealer opens 2D weak

Your hand
♠KT9x
♥-
♦AKxx
♣AKQxx

Your move ?

regards

thebiker

Brian Keable

[mgoetze]

Double, planning to bid ♣ next... WTP?

[gwnn]

TP is that you have 4 diamonds and 0 hearts.

This problem is too terrible, I can't answer it.

[helene_t]

What a horrible hand. I refuse to double with a void in an unbid major. 2NT is a smaller distortion IMHO. At matchpoints I think I would pass.

[gwnn]

This hand reminded me of http://forums.bridge...showtopic=27528, which I actually held at the table and that had a void in an unbid minor and was less powerful than this but I still remember the pain it caused

Options I would not consider are
pass because I'm 19
X because of the heart problem
4♣ because I don't want to play in a 4-2 fit

That leaves 2♠, 2NT, 3♣ and 3NT I guess

2NT is somewhat of an underbid and it will almost always have 2 hearts so I'm distorting playability in both majors and NT and ♣. That's too much, you're out.
3NT is OK on values I guess but now I'm either bidding as if I held 6 clubs or ~21 balanced, well I have neither and we will miss spades all the time, very high level spade contracts, no, I will not bid 3NT either
2S is not really an option because there is not much upside. I know partners of mine who pass me with 5 card support so even when it's supposed to work it will not always. Meanwhile I will never know whether he has 4 or 5 and some of the time the 4-4 spade fit will not even be good.

So I bid 3♣. I will hope here that the downsides of it are bearably few, but I'm not sure this is true so I will just not think of them too much. Instead I will add that I am vulnerable vs not so I do promise a nice-ish hand anyway.

[whereagles]

Playing ELC it's easy: double + pull a heart bid to spades.

Not playing that I would try double anyway, but pull heart bids to clubs.

[ArtK78]

3♣. I am underbidding by at least a King, but all of the other options are worse.

[Ant590]

My gut says 3NT, but that seems as bad as a dbl in terms of convincing partner to play in a 5- or 6-0 heart fit.

By brain overrules my gut to 3♣ then (hopefully) some intelligent action later in the auction. Seems the quickest route to play in 3♣ though

[andy_h]

Double and clubs.

[Codo]

I double and bid clubs later.

[Phil]

Double. Easy, really.

If pard bids 2H, 3C. Over 2S, 3D and then a raise.

2N is interesting - assuming this is Leb, pard has a weak hand with clubs or an invite in a major. In either case I will bid 3D but 3N over 3H.

4H is a problem but generally pard will have 6H for this call. It will play reasonably well with partner using my multiple entries to elope his small trump. If he has 5H / 5C - too bad.

[jjbrr]

While I'm not as optimistic that the auction won't be a disaster as Phil seems to be, I think double is my choice. I'd follow up same as Phil, but I'm worried when partner tries to rebid ♥ after I try to correct. I'll never convince him I'm void, and playing a 6-0 fit violates that rule that Europeans seem so attracted to.

[kfay]

Double seems too far gone for me.

I'd much rather bid 3NT than double. In fact, that is what I will do. If partner pulls this to 4H... now I know he has a lot.

[rbforster]

3♣. At these colors, I feel like I need to bid but might pass if they were Vul. I do feel that with length/values in the preempted suit, your hand is a lot weaker than it appears on HCPs since those small diamonds will never be tricks (or help establish your partner's suit).

Phil, on Apr 14 2010, 10:46 AM, said:

Double. Easy, really.

If pard bids 2H, 3C. Over 2S, 3D and then a raise.

4H is a problem but generally pard will have 6H for this call. It will play reasonably well with partner using my multiple entries to elope his small trump. If he has 5H / 5C - too bad.

I'm not an optimist on this auction after X either. What about after some competition?

(2♦)-X-(3♦)-3♥
(P)-?

3N now, and then we're stuck in 4♥ when he pulls 3N?

I don't have good agreements about how many of a major my double promises (and how strong partners' checkback), but as advancer I would probably just bid 4M with GF values and a 5 card major, especially since I'm likely to have shortness in diamonds.

[jdonn]

The one thing I hate is 3♣. I understand double is dangerous as is a direct 3NT, but I just won't underbid by that much.

[Phil]

Rob F, on Apr 14 2010, 12:10 PM, said:

What about after some competition?

(2♦)-X-(3♦)-3♥
(P)-?

3N now, and then we're stuck in 4♥ when he pulls 3N?

This is a doubtful continuation when we hold AKxx.

How many hearts do you think pard has when he doesn't make a responsive x holding at most a sitff diamond? And when he pulls 3N to 4♥, how many hearts do you think he has then?

[mikeh]

whereagles, on Apr 14 2010, 07:52 AM, said:

Playing ELC it's easy: double + pull a heart bid to spades.

Not playing that I would try double anyway, but pull heart bids to clubs.

That isn't an ELC situation. ELC is when one has a long minor and the other major: thus a double of 1♥ on 4=2=6=1, intending to correct the unwelcome club advance to diamonds.

I cannot imagine the most diehard knowledgable ELC player asserting that doubling then bidding spades over hearts shows a 4 card suit with a longer minor. This is truly lol.

I only make this post because there may be advancing players who think that this ELC treatment should be considered even remotely correct.

[mikeh]

Phil, on Apr 14 2010, 01:08 PM, said:

Rob F, on Apr 14 2010, 12:10 PM, said:

What about after some competition?

(2♦)-X-(3♦)-3♥
(P)-?

3N now, and then we're stuck in 4♥ when he pulls 3N?

This is a doubtful continuation when we hold AKxx.

How many hearts do you think pard has when he doesn't make a responsive x holding at most a sitff diamond? And when he pulls 3N to 4♥, how many hearts do you think he has then?

Do you think partner should make a responsive double with say xxx AQJx x Jxxxx?

And do you think he needs more than 6 hearts to pull 3N? with say xxx QJ9xxx x Jxx?

The hand is a nightmare...I have zero idea what is best....my thoughts include, in no particular order, pass, double, 3♣, 3N, 2N...but all are accompanied by the sinking realization that I am probably going to hate the result.

As it is, I suck it up and double and bid 3N, in the given continuation, and then pass 4♥. I lay down a 4=2=2=5 with Kx of hearts and then apologize, saying that my glasses need cleaning.

[rbforster]

Phil, on Apr 14 2010, 01:08 PM, said:

Rob F, on Apr 14 2010, 12:10 PM, said:

What about after some competition?

(2♦)-X-(3♦)-3♥
(P)-?

3N now, and then we're stuck in 4♥ when he pulls 3N?

This is a doubtful continuation when we hold AKxx.

Well they are NV vs V, and I've seen my share of joker 2 card raises in that situation. Not super likely, but not out of the question.

Phil, on Apr 14 2010, 01:08 PM, said:

How many hearts do you think pard has when he doesn't make a responsive x holding at most a sitff diamond? And when he pulls 3N to 4♥, how many hearts do you think he has then?

In that situation, I think partner is going to need to bid a 4 card major and only double with 44 majors (catering to you being 43, or 40 in this case). So with 3415, he's going to bid 3♥ and we're going to miss a big club fit. Perhaps more likely, he might be 4513 (or 3514) and want to bid his longer suit rather than X, which can end up in the wrong one of 3N or 4♠ depending on what your agreement is there.

[JoAnneM]

What I really hate is "WTP". It is amazing how many answers there are, and with good explanations. I would double and then be thrilled when partner bids spades. Or I will either bid clubs or nt depending.......