[jh51]

Scoring: MP

---

Playing 2/1 GF, bidding went (with no opposition bidding)
1♥-2♣
3♣-3♠
4♣-4♥
5♣-?

What do you do at this point? Does it affect your decision if this is a NLM event as opposed to an open event? (This was from a tournament where this board was played in both events.)

[jjbrr]

bid 3♥ instead of 3♠

[ONEferBRID]

3♥ should have been bid instead of 3S.
3♥ would show 3 card support.

[jh51]

The intent of the spade bid was an advance cue bid, as I am interested in slam with a double fit. Surely my bid of 4♥ shows 3 card support. The bidding was what it was. North should probably have passed 4♥, which was cold.

The question was, and still stands, what do you do after partner bids 5♣?

[dicklont]

jh51, on Mar 28 2010, 10:48 PM, said:

[snip] Surely my bid of 4♥ shows 3 card support. The bidding was what it was. [snip]

Since you denied 3 hearts in the previous round, 4♥ shows control (A or K) not 3 hearts.
Now you must pass, partner decided to 5♣ because there is no diamond control.

[jjbrr]

jh51, on Mar 28 2010, 03:48 PM, said:

The intent of the spade bid was an advance cue bid, as I am interested in slam with a double fit. Surely my bid of 4♥ shows 3 card support. The bidding was what it was. North should probably have passed 4♥, which was cold.

The question was, and still stands, what do you do after partner bids 5♣?

It's clear to pass 5♣. No one has shown a ♦ cuebid. And you have a minimum anyway and partner hasn't cooperated for slam.

Your 4♥ bid 100% DENIES 3♥ because of the failure to bid 3♥. It is right to bid 3♥ instead of 3♠ because partner hasn't denied 6♥ and 4♥ could definitely be the right spot on this auction and will be a huge majority of the time.

If this were an "assign the blame" for missing 4♥, you would get 100% for not bidding 3♥.Your partner should not pass 4♥ after you bid 3♠ because you're looking for slam in ♣ and not offering it as a place to play.

[rwbarton]

dicklont, on Mar 28 2010, 05:18 PM, said:

jh51, on Mar 28 2010, 10:48 PM, said:

[snip] Surely my bid of 4♥ shows 3 card support. The bidding was what it was. [snip]

Since you denied 3 hearts in the previous round, 4♥ shows control (A or K) not 3 hearts.

Alternatively, (edit)by agreement(/edit) it could be an offer to play with ♥Hx and no diamond stopper. I think that is how my partnership would play it, since we have the crude agreement that if you want to insist on clubs after 1♥-2♣-3♣, you must raise to 4♣ immediately (but for us, 2♣ was GF clubs or balanced).

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

Obviously we have no diamond control, so 5C it is.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: And yes, 3H instead of 3S, sry hidding the major
suit support is silly, espesially playing MP.

[Phil]

jh51, on Mar 28 2010, 03:48 PM, said:

The intent of the spade bid was an advance cue bid, as I am interested in slam with a double fit. Surely my bid of 4♥ shows 3 card support. The bidding was what it was. North should probably have passed 4♥, which was cold.

The question was, and still stands, what do you do after partner bids 5♣?

I would suggest that if you post a problem in the BI, that you listen closely to the responses, instead of giving your (wrong) interpretation of two calls in a basic 2/1 sequence. Even in SAYC, your understanding is probably wrong, as most would take a 3♥ call as forcing (I think).

3♠ is a cue, or at least a probe for 3N. As Jeremy (jjbrr) points out, it certainly denies primary heart support.

The suggestion of 4♥ to promise Hx is reasonable but hardly standard.

Unlike the others I am not passing 5♣ - at MPs anyway. I rate to get a lousy score in 5♣ and some minimums are rolling a small slam.

[P_Marlowe]

jh51, on Mar 28 2010, 03:48 PM, said:

The intent of the spade bid was an advance cue bid, as I am interested in slam with a double fit. Surely my bid of 4♥ shows 3 card support. The bidding was what it was. North should probably have passed 4♥, which was cold.

The question was, and still stands, what do you do after partner bids 5♣?

Just a simple suggestion - try to tell p as fast as possible,
which suit is trumps.
After he opened with 1H, you know, you have a heart fit,
ok, you cant show a game forcing heart raise at once, you
delay the showing of the fit for one round, and one round
later you should show the fit.

Make your live easier, tell p, what is the trump suit on a
reasonable level.
Even if 4H showes fit, a big if, than opener gets the good news
in very late stage - in the 3rd round, the bidding has already
reached the 4level.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[the hog]

I pass after 5C. Parter has no idea that we have a H fit. Also we appear to be off a D control. I agree that you should have bid 3H and not 3S.

[mike777]

On the forums...I think the issue is:
3h=clear slam try or
3h can be Hx......


I have a strong bias towards.....slam try.......3 cards.....

NO doubt in theory YOu can create a very rare Hx....hand.

-------------------------------


edit

On reflection I should note that I play on rebid of major =six not some random 5 so .....I bet that affects outcomes.......

[aguahombre]

mike777, on Mar 28 2010, 11:19 PM, said:

On the forums...I think the issue is:
3h=clear slam try or
3h can be Hx......


I have a strong bias towards.....slam try.......3 cards.....

NO doubt in theory YOu can create a very rare Hx....hand.

-------------------------------


edit

On reflection I should note that I play on rebid of major =six not some random 5 so .....I bet that affects outcomes.......

3H might or might not be a slam try. but it does establish 3-card support. It doesn't matter that it might be a minimum GF or might be willing to go for slam. This time it is just a normal old 2C followed by showing 3 hearts in a game forcing auction.

Opposite what we forum people would open, GF is plenty....only cooperating with opener's slam tries, not creating them.

[mike777]

aguahombre, on Mar 29 2010, 12:50 AM, said:

mike777, on Mar 28 2010, 11:19 PM, said:

On the forums...I think the issue is:
3h=clear slam try or
3h can be Hx......


I have a strong bias towards.....slam try.......3 cards.....

NO doubt in theory YOu can create a very rare Hx....hand.

-------------------------------


edit

On reflection I should note that I play on rebid of major =six not some random 5 so .....I bet that affects outcomes.......

3H might or might not be a slam try. but it does establish 3-card support. It doesn't matter that it might be a minimum GF or might be willing to go for slam. This time it is just a normal old 2C followed by showing 3 hearts in a game forcing auction.

Opposite what we forum people would open, GF is plenty....only cooperating with opener's slam tries, not creating them.

I disagree. but grant you seem to be sarcastic/mean in many of your replies.

My bet is you will not be in the future...

[jh51]

I find it odd that everyone is quick to criticize my bidding, but fail to adequately address the original question.

My expectations were that the normal result would be 4♥ making +420 or +450. If I am right, I cannot pass 5♣. If it makes, it is still a bad match point result. But was my expectation correct?

In the open game, only a couple of pairs failed to bid 4♥, and one pair was doubled. +400 would not have been a particularly good score.

In the NLM game where I was playing, only one pair bid 4♥ and they somehow managed to go down 3! So +400 would have been a top.

What did I in fact do? I bid 6♣ based upon my belief that +400 was going to be a bad result. Dummy came down with

♠ x
♥ AJTxx
♦ xx
♣ KQxxx

Amazingly, the opening lead was a small ♥!!!!! RHO covered the J and I won with my K♥. On the second club trick, RHO discards a small ♥ from an original holding of Q9xx. Making 7 on a hand where 5♣ likely goes down against a less friendly lead!!!

For those of you critical of my 3♠ bid, consider that 6♣ depends only on being able to bring in the ♥ suit of the pointed suits are reversed. If I were to have bid 3♥ as some suggest, partner almost certainly bids 4♥ with that hand, and would do so even if the ♥J were the ♥Q, in which case the slam makes against any 3-2 split and at least half the 4-1 splits. How do you bid it if you don't bid 3♠?

Please note that after partner bids ♣ twice, I know that she is 5-5 in the round suits, and is not likely to have much more than what she actually had. Had I ♥Hx (and therefore an additional card somewhere else, I think it would have been the rare hand where I would have bid 4♥. Pass or 5♣ if the bidding had gone the way it did, depending on my hand. I think the only doubleton I would have bid 4♥ with is the KQ. Thus my previous statement that 4♥ should show 3 card support in this sequence.

[jjbrr]

oy.

[jdonn]

You're playing in an event where people lead and discard this way and you are worried making game won't be a good score? Just don't risk a 0. 5♣ will get you some matchpoints whereas what you did was extremely lucky to avoid getting none!

You're so worried about "if partners other suits were switched, and we got a finesse" well what about if the suits aren't switched and they sit just how they are? Do you think partner is more likely to be short in your 4 card suit or 2 card suit? And what if you don't get that finesse?

[gwnn]

if I was an alien who kidnapped the player who bid like this I wouldn't like my prospects but I think I'd bid 6♣, the only way to save this board.

[ONEferBRID]

The hand shouldn't get past 4H without a Diam Ctrl cue:

♠ A97
♥ K85
♦ Q9
♣ AJT95


♠ x
♥ AJTxx
♦ xx
♣ KQxxx

South North
1H   -   2C!
3C   -    3H ( 3 cd support; double fit )
3S*(cue) -  4C ( temporizing; looking for a Diam cue )
4H ( no Diam cue ) - all pass
_______________________________________
* But would a 10 hcp Opener really initiate a slam invite ?

[vuroth]

Knowing the field is obviously important. If the field can't even find a plain major game, then pushing to 6 fearing a zero is wrong.

Also, if the stronger field isn't bidding past 4♥, why is exploring for a slam so defensible?

I still don't see why 4♥ couldn't be as short as a singleton, even having read the explanation.

The only reason you didn't get a zero is that your opponents made an atrocious, inexcusable lead. I understand that slam might have been on if the stars aligned (opps silent with a 10 card fit, etc), but not every slam is biddable, right?