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Assign the blame

#1 User is offline   zheddh 

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Posted 2010-March-08, 22:15

Scoring: IMP


(1♠) - 2♣ - (4♠) - p
( p ) - X - p - 5♣
(p) - p - (5♠) - All pass

I don't know if its possible to bid the slam but at the very least 5♠ should have been Xed.

South says his Pass of 5♠ is forcing now. North says South could have a yarborough and this is not a forcing situation and so he didn't X.
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#2 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2010-March-08, 23:58

Hi,

#1 Pass is certainly not forcing, why should it?
And South was happy to play 4S, why does he want to make a forcing pass?
Does he want to play 6S? Did his hand get any stronger?
South should show some live, and X 5S.
#2 North can and should also 5S.
North was willing to play 4Sx oppossite xxx in spades, he needs to expect,
that his first X gets passed out, now the opponents are one level higher.

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Marlowe
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#3 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2010-March-08, 23:59

1S 2C 4S 5C
AP

But if either EW bids 5S and south doesn't double (he won't) I would just bid 6C with the north hand.

South's pass is obviously NF, he showed nothing! Sometimes you can't make anything! And they are cold for 5S!
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#4 User is offline   jukmoi 

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Posted 2010-March-09, 01:12

With us vulnerable and they nonvulnerable, it is very likely that they are doing the sacrificing. I believe its good agreement that "after we bid vulnerable game and they are nonvulnerable forcing passes are on". I would not assume that pass is forcing without an agreement though.
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#5 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2010-March-09, 02:13

I had bid 4 NT with the south hand after the double. Then the pass is forcing.
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#6 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-March-09, 02:18

1♠ 2♣ 4♠ 5♣
5♠ 6♣

is definitely the start if I have all the hands. Then E or W probably take out insurance at imps so 500 it is.
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#7 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2010-March-09, 02:46

lol @ south pass over 4♠.
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2010-March-09, 03:55

Yeah South needs to bid 5♣ over 4♠. And to double 5♠.

His problem over 5♠ is that he wants pass to be forcing. But it isn't. So he has to double.

I like Codo's idea of 4NT followed by a forcing pass but I wouldn't be sure that pass is forcing even then.

I think North's bidding was fine.
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#9 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-March-09, 04:20

south's bidding is worse than his "forcing pass" claim.

bid 5♣!!!
x 5♠!!
do something :)
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#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-March-09, 04:31

agreee with csaba
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#11 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2010-March-09, 23:16

Codo, on Mar 9 2010, 03:13 AM, said:

I had bid 4 NT with the south hand after the double. Then the pass is forcing.

4N as two places to play...but why would that create a forcing situation as opposed to a 5C bid?

I think South takes 100% of the blame. He could have bid 5C with long clubs and short spades and no values. Or he could have something like xx x Jxxxx xxxxx that likely is down 1 in 5C but can't set 4S. South is in the only position to judge the trump fit of both sides.

North bid his hand well, first establishing his anchor suit and then showing values. Why should he bid the same hand again with no certainty of three defensive tricks?
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#12 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-March-10, 02:55

Nobody bidding 4NT with South on the first round? Oh well, he should definitely bid something.

Now Pass isn't forcing for the simple reason that South hasn't shown any values at all.
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#13 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-March-10, 08:14

zheddh, on Mar 8 2010, 11:15 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP


(1♠) - 2♣ - (4♠) - p
( p ) - X - p - 5♣
(p) - p - (5♠) - All pass

I don't know if its possible to bid the slam but at the very least 5♠ should have been Xed.

South says his Pass of 5♠ is forcing now. North says South could have a yarborough and this is not a forcing situation and so he didn't X.

North for the first error ...Not Xing 1♠
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#14 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2010-March-12, 09:56

pooltuna, on Mar 10 2010, 09:14 AM, said:

North for the first error ...Not Xing 1♠

And that absolves South of all blame? Seriously?

I think it's funny that so many people said what they would have done differently with both hands, but didn't answer the actual question originally asked, which is to assign the blame.

98% to South for his two incorrect passes; 2% to North for not being a mensch and doubling at the end.
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