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Fight for partscore?

#1 User is offline   Little Kid 

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Posted 2010-March-03, 16:00

Scoring: IMP

(Pass)-Pass-(1♠)-Pass
(2♠) - ?


You're in 2nd position, do you move over 2♠ or await developments?
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#2 User is offline   Pict 

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Posted 2010-March-03, 16:15

I look forward to broadening my mind!

Meanwhile I just pass.
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#3 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-March-03, 16:18

I'd just pass, stiff K is a big warning sign, as is being red/white.
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#4 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2010-March-03, 17:14

NV I move (I'd choose 2N - 4-3 heart fit is OK at the 2-level but not so fun at the 3-level), V I don't.
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#5 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2010-March-03, 17:37

Easy pass at these colors and I hate my stiff K of their suit.
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#6 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-March-03, 17:39

easy pass at IMPs, I'd tend to act at MPs against bad players who autobid 3♠ over our partscore
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#7 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-March-03, 19:21

Siegmund, on Mar 3 2010, 06:14 PM, said:

NV I move (I'd choose 2N - 4-3 heart fit is OK at the 2-level but not so fun at the 3-level), V I don't.

Good point, at the 3 level a 3-4 club fit works a lot better than a 4-3 heart fit.
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#8 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2010-March-03, 20:26

Little Kid, on Mar 3 2010, 05:00 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(Pass)-Pass-(1♠)-Pass
(2♠) - ?
You're in 2nd position, do you move over 2♠ or await developments?

IMO _X = 10, 2N = 8, 3♦ = 6, _P = 4.
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#9 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-March-03, 20:58

Siegmund, on Mar 3 2010, 06:14 PM, said:

NV I move (I'd choose 2N - 4-3 heart fit is OK at the 2-level but not so fun at the 3-level), V I don't.

Partner should not bid a 4 card heart suit unless he has no other (non spade) 4 card suit, he should bid 2N with 2 places to play.

If partner is 3-3 in the minors he will probably bid 3C anyways, so you gain by bidding 2N specifically when partner is 4432 (you get to 3D). You gain when he does not have a pass with that shape anyways.

If partner has any hand with 5 hearts you will probably get to an inferior spot, and even when you are gonna get to a 4-3 fit you'd like it to be hearts not clubs (so that you can take the tap in the short hand).

Heck, forget about the 4-3, what about when partner is 4522 and you play the 4-2 by bidding 2N!
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#10 User is offline   MinorKid 

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Posted 2010-March-04, 00:51

Partner have at most 11HCP, you have 7 useful HCP + singleton(+2 or 3DP) + 5th card(+1 or 2) , making a maximum of 23 to play at 3♣♦♥. Thus you better double before it is too high!
------------------------
Gee I throught for a moment and I may pass first. If opponents bid on partner will have less. If partner have 10~11 HCP he will bid.

Sorry!
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#11 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-March-04, 00:54

MinorKid, on Mar 4 2010, 01:51 AM, said:

Partner have at most 11HCP, you have 7 useful HCP + singleton(+2/3DP) + 5th card(+1/2) , making a maximum of 23 to play at 3♣♦♥. Thus you better double before it is too high!

Why must partner have at most 11 HCP?
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#12 User is offline   MinorKid 

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Posted 2010-March-04, 01:17

PhantomSac, on Mar 4 2010, 01:54 AM, said:

MinorKid, on Mar 4 2010, 01:51 AM, said:

Partner have at most 11HCP, you have 7 useful HCP + singleton(+2/3DP) + 5th card(+1/2) , making a maximum of 23 to play at 3♣♦♥. Thus you better double before it is too high!

Why must partner have at most 11 HCP?

RHO have at least 13
LHO have at least 6
I have 10
40-13-6-10 = 11
Thus partner have at most 11 HCP.
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#13 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2010-March-04, 01:53

MinorKid, on Mar 4 2010, 09:17 AM, said:

PhantomSac, on Mar 4 2010, 01:54 AM, said:

MinorKid, on Mar 4 2010, 01:51 AM, said:

Partner have at most 11HCP, you have 7 useful HCP + singleton(+2/3DP) + 5th card(+1/2) , making a maximum of 23 to play at 3♣♦♥. Thus you better double before it is too high!

Why must partner have at most 11 HCP?

RHO have at least 13
LHO have at least 6
I have 10
40-13-6-10 = 11
Thus partner have at most 11 HCP.

QED
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#14 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2010-March-04, 01:53

Hi,

given that we are red vs. green I would pass, if we are green
bidding looks sensible (2NT or X), at red vs. red, it would be a
toss up.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#15 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2010-March-04, 01:56

MinorKid, on Mar 4 2010, 01:51 AM, said:

Partner have at most 11HCP, you have 7 useful HCP + singleton(+2 or 3DP) + 5th card(+1 or 2) , making a maximum of 23 to play at 3♣♦♥. Thus you better double before it is too high!
------------------------
Gee I throught for a moment and I may pass first. If opponents bid on partner will have less. If partner have 10~11 HCP he will bid.

Sorry!

Given his spade length, he should not move, even if he happens
to hold 11HCP.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#16 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2010-March-04, 02:00

MinorKid, on Mar 4 2010, 04:17 PM, said:

RHO have at least 13
LHO have at least 6
I have 10
40-13-6-10 = 11
Thus partner have at most 11 HCP.

You seems to be really serious about this. If I did not get the joke, I apologisze, but:

Opener has 10+, responder 5+ and even this is not guranteed.
So Partner has up to 15 HCPs.
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#17 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-March-04, 02:03

I opened with less than 13 last week. Once long ago even with less than 12! Never responded with less than 6 though.
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#18 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2010-March-04, 02:06

Quote

Partner should not bid a 4 card heart suit unless he has no other (non spade) 4 card suit, he should bid 2N with 2 places to play.


Remind me to suggest that method to my regular p sometime. Very sensible (and if you play it, yes, P>X>2NT on these cards rather than P>2NT>X)... in real life I think all my partners would consider 3H mandatory with 4. (Yeah, brings us back to the title of the forum.)
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#19 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-March-04, 02:08

I would pass. After a few disasters balancing V vs NV, I learned to pass when I have wasted values.
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#20 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2010-March-04, 03:08

I probably opened 1D precisely so I don't have this sort of problem, if partner has values, I'll have heard from him.

I'd have said 2S was 0+, certainly was on the odd occasion I played 5CM, so plenty of room for partner to have a hand.
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