[wank]

AKJ8x
A9x
AQ
K98

Pass from P, 1S on your right. You're at red at imps.

What's do you do?

If you double partner bids 2H. What do you do then? X followd by 2N is 19-21 for you. Think you're too strong for that? Think the range is too wide?

[karlson]

x..2n seems right. I don't see why this is a particularly spectacular 21. Yes, some finesses rate to work, but partner knows that too. The big negative is that your spades do not rate to be a strong source of tricks.

[cloa513]

Even wider range is fine for 2NT. Lots of Points in your own hand without some in your partner's hand can easily only come to seven or less. The opening hand could easily be a psche or extra light so X then 2NT is ideal.

[P_Marlowe]

X, plan to bid 2NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[gwnn]

x and 2nt. the range is fine. I'm not too strong since I have so much in spades.

[effervesce]

X and 3NT for me. Don't need much from partner to get game, and don't want to give partner a hard decision whether to bid game or not with a few points.

[gwnn]

What's so hard in that decision? If he wants to accept he accepts if he doesn't he doesn't. It's not nuclear physics.

[Poky]

If they're red, pass in a millisecond.
If they're white, pass in 3 milliseconds.
Not even close to double.
If I got bluffed, I congratulate them.

[effervesce]

gwnn, on Mar 4 2010, 05:58 AM, said:

What's so hard in that decision? If he wants to accept he accepts if he doesn't he doesn't. It's not nuclear physics.

If partner has around a 4 count - eg K hearts, JT of clubs- will partner bid game? Heck, JTxx hearts and JTxx clubs is a game I want to be in...

The hand looks stronger than a simple 21 count to me-its more like 22. And I'm not taking the large number of honors in spades as a negative- its good that we have a stack of spade stops. There is a non-zero chance that LHO will lead a spade too.

One of the reasons why aces (and, to a lesser extent kings) are undervalued in the standard 4-3-2-1 count is that they improve the value of other cards you and partner have in that suit. Jacks and tens that partner would otherwise value as worthless become gold.

[gwnn]

Partner will accept with clearcut hands, he will reject with clearcut hands. I don't care much what he does with the very marginal hands -- they are marginal! And neither should he. I don't believe in agonizing for minutes on hands like this.

The hands you give are admittedly marginal but I would ultimately just bid game with them. I would not yell at partner either way though.

If, however, you think that this is the equivalent of a 22 count (I disagree with this), I agree that you shouldn't say it's a 19-21 count. But the reason "don't want to give partner a hard decision" is not a good one.

[effervesce]

gwnn, on Mar 4 2010, 08:08 AM, said:

If, however, you think that this is the equivalent of a 22 count (I disagree with this), I agree that you shouldn't say it's a 19-21 count. But the reason "don't want to give partner a hard decision" is not a good one.

Then that's where we disagree. Heck, I'd value it closer to 23 than 19-21 especially given it was a 1♠ opening before me. What I meant by "dont want to give partner a hard decision" is that partner will not know that game is right on JTxx hearts, JTxx clubs. It makes it easier for him to evaluate to bid 3NT on other hands, given that he won't, unlike you, think that Kxx hearts and JTxx clubs is enough for game when I rebid 2NT on another, different '19-21' hand.

[PhantomSac]

red/white I would X, any other vul I would just pass

[gwnn]

the 1S opening on our right made our hand worse, not better. now you have little hope for 4 or 5 spade tricks. I am surprised you consider otherwise

[pooltuna]

gwnn, on Mar 4 2010, 10:24 AM, said:

the 1S opening on our right made our hand worse, not better. now you have little hope for 4 or 5 spade tricks. I am surprised you consider otherwise

absolutely right there is no way partner could have

---

so game is completely out of reach
<sarcasm off>

[hrothgar]

I'm passing

I really dislike the double followed by NT plan.

I have 21 HCPs
RHO is rates to have a 12 count.

This leaves 7 HCPs between the other two hands.
Lets be chartible and give partner four of them.

If I end up declaring NT, I am going to have NO transportation into dummy.
I'm going to get locked into my hand and constantly have to expose myself on lead. Contracting for 8 or 9 tricks seems suicidal.

Yes, there are some hands where we might make game, however, partner's failure to preempt in first seat excludes an awful lot of them. There are a bunch of others where partner might be able to make an aggressive balance.

[jdonn]

I like double then notrump when I'm vul, but 3NT is way too much to rebid.

[Fluffy]

agree with justin, would pass at other vulnerabilities, but here we better act, double->2NT.


There is also a cute alternative: bidding 1NT, wich directly inquiriys partner about having 5 hearts, if he does we settle to game, otherwise we play a good partscore (Wich coudl even be raised in my dreams).

[gwnn]

pooltuna, on Mar 4 2010, 03:44 PM, said:

gwnn, on Mar 4 2010, 10:24 AM, said:

the 1S opening on our right made our hand worse, not better. now you have little hope for 4 or 5 spade tricks. I am surprised you consider otherwise

absolutely right there is no way partner could have

---

so game is completely out of reach
<sarcasm off>

pooltuna my old friend: this was my contention:

My hand got worse after RHO opened 1S.

To rephrase, suppose these two different scenarios:

a. RHO opened 1H
b. RHO opened 1S

In which case is this hand stronger? Why? Why not?

I think my hand is clearly better if RHO opens 1H than 1S. Do you disagree?

[pooltuna]

gwnn, on Mar 4 2010, 12:17 PM, said:

pooltuna, on Mar 4 2010, 03:44 PM, said:

gwnn, on Mar 4 2010, 10:24 AM, said:

the 1S opening on our right made our hand worse, not better. now you have little hope for 4 or 5 spade tricks. I am surprised you consider otherwise

absolutely right there is no way partner could have

---

so game is completely out of reach
<sarcasm off>

pooltuna my old friend: this was my contention:

My hand got worse after RHO opened 1S.

To rephrase, suppose these two different scenarios:

a. RHO opened 1H
b. RHO opened 1S

In which case is this hand stronger? Why? Why not?

I think my hand is clearly better if RHO opens 1H than 1S. Do you disagree?

clearly a 1♥ opening is better for this hand overall but even a 1♠ opening does not make this a hopeless cause as Justin seems to think else why is he passing with = and favorable vulnerabilty.

[akhare]

X followed by 2N seems right.

At this vul., the 1S after two passes could be similar to the third seat fav. "1♠" joke that I tried the other day (unfortunately pard didn't get it holding 11 points after they bid 1N and wanted to play in 1N-XX over his X of 1N):

T98XX A9XX XXX X