[bd71]

Scoring: MP

1C (1D) X (P)
??

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[Pict]

It feels a bit odd, but maybe I just bid one spade and see what happens.

[jdonn]

2♦, I'm forcing to game but I don't want to rule out clubs in case of slam. So I'll try to go slowly rather than make some big jump in support of spades at this point.

[kenrexford]

I second the dog walking.

[Jlall]

I'd bid 3S, forcing to game is def too much.

Also, before all examples of A A SQ where slam makes, I will submit that if you cuebid and then bid spades you're very likely to get too high when partner has the wrong 13 counts.

Given the opps relative silence, partner having a bunch of points that do not help us is really likely, and him having the perfect AAQ and out is really unlikely. 3S is a big bid. Also it's never going all pass given RHO's pass, but if it does I'm not unhappy

[ArtK78]

Jlall, on Feb 16 2010, 05:41 PM, said:

I'd bid 3S, forcing to game is def too much.

Also, before all examples of A A SQ where slam makes, I will submit that if you cuebid and then bid spades you're very likely to get too high when partner has the wrong 13 counts.

Given the opps relative silence, partner having a bunch of points that do not help us is really likely, and him having the perfect AAQ and out is really unlikely. 3S is a big bid. Also it's never going all pass given RHO's pass, but if it does I'm not unhappy

Wow. Forcing to game is definitely too much?

I can understand not wanting to get partner overly excited, but certainly the hand is worth a game force. With all of the room between 2♦ and 4♠, you should be able to control partner's exuberance.

I would bid 2♦ then spades.

[jdonn]

If it's some hand where we don't make game because of handling or having to ruff too much in hand or whatever then 3♠ will probably be down most of the time anyway. Having a clear loser in each suit would just be unlucky and I won't play for it. And partner doesn't have a good idea what is useful since our shape is so wild.

I really think inviting game is a big mistake. The ace of clubs and out is game. Sure game can be down as well but who makes a living stopping on a dime with some crazy hand because game could be down?

[rogerclee]

2D, looking forward to blackwood.

[Jlall]

Yes, IMO if you show the equivalent of 18 points and partner leaves you there, you are high enough.

Personally I think there is a 0 % chance of this happening since partner would need like 6 points, and then the opps not bidding is bizarre, but if partner passes with his Jxxx Kxxx Qxxx x I am perfectly fine with that. I hope I make 3. Even if partner has a great hand like QJxx Qxxx Jxxx x game has almost no play.

It is easy to overestimate how well a hand like this will play in a 4-4 fit, but it is not pretty when you don't have much combined values.

When you cuebid and raise spades, you show a VERY strong (GF) hand, and again it is easy to get carried away with perfect mins for partner, and lose sight of very strong hands that don't fit well.

[Jlall]

jdonn, on Feb 16 2010, 05:54 PM, said:

If it's some hand where we don't make game because of handling or having to ruff too much in hand or whatever then 3♠ will probably be down most of the time anyway. Having a clear loser in each suit would just be unlucky and I won't play for it. And partner doesn't have a good idea what is useful since our shape is so wild.

I really think inviting game is a big mistake. The ace of clubs and out is game. Sure game can be down as well but who makes a living stopping on a dime with some crazy hand because game could be down?

You could at least check the form of scoring before posting!

Edit: Apparantly I will get a top for 3S-1 in the BBF field.

[Jlall]

If you really want to bid game, bid 4S. It shows a distributional hand without much HCP.

Bidding 2D then raising spades is what you'd do with a balanced 19 count. It is just really horrible. You are misdescribing your hand. At least 4S is just an overbid.

[straube]

I like 1S. Then bid lots of clubs if you get a rebid. I think you will.

[the hog]

My partner's have denied a 4 card M with the double, so I would bid 4C with my partner's. With an unknown who shows both Ms here, I would bid 4S

[jdonn]

The_Hog, on Feb 16 2010, 08:52 PM, said:

My partner's have denied a 4 card M with the double, so I would bid 4C with my partner's. With an unknown who shows both Ms here, I would bid 4S

How do you play the major suit rebids over the double (and jumps)? And how do you mean 4♣?

[the hog]

jdonn, on Feb 17 2010, 08:53 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Feb 16 2010, 08:52 PM, said:

My partner's have denied a 4 card M with the double, so I would bid 4C with my partner's. With an unknown who shows both Ms here, I would bid 4S

How do you play the major suit rebids over the double (and jumps)? And how do you mean 4♣?

M suit rebids over the double are natural, so we would even bid 1m (x) 1H with 4-4 Ms. With 5-4 we would bid the longer one, of course. However I don't think I am alone in playing this.
4C is forcing and shows about a 4 loser hand, as responder has shown some C length, (no M and no NT bid). As we played our 1C opeing as low as 2, we found it was important to play this style to show m suit support asap.

[MarkDean]

I would bid 4♠. I cannot imagine not bidding game, but I am a known overbidder in these situations.

[PhantomSac]

jdonn, on Feb 16 2010, 05:54 PM, said:

The ace of clubs and out is game.

Right, but if partner has that then the opps will be bidding something. They have 24 HCP and a double fit, AND all their values are in their suits.

It is really relevant imo that if 3S somehow goes all pass, partner always has one of the "bad" hands, and not some perfect fitter where we have all the black suit values and nothing else (and if we have something else, partner has enough to bid game over 3S) where as you say even 3S will often be down (which at MP is a good reason to stop in 3S rather than bid 4S).

But yeah 3S all pass is probably impossible when we have a 7-4 12 count, so worrying about it does seem a little silly though I think I would be hugely plus if it were to happen.

[bd71]

Well, for what it's worth on this hand partner did have the almost perfect hand.

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Our bidding in the end was 1C-(1D)-X-4S-4N-5H-6S. LHO doubled, but RHO had JTxx of spades. Don't understand LHO double, but oh well. Down one when 6N is cold...sadness.

[Fluffy]

6NT might be unracheable, but 6♣ isn't

[jdonn]

The_Hog, on Feb 16 2010, 10:22 PM, said:

jdonn, on Feb 17 2010, 08:53 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Feb 16 2010, 08:52 PM, said:

My partner's have denied a 4 card M with the double, so I would bid 4C with my partner's. With an unknown who shows both Ms here, I would bid 4S

How do you play the major suit rebids over the double (and jumps)? And how do you mean 4♣?

M suit rebids over the double are natural, so we would even bid 1m (x) 1H with 4-4 Ms. With 5-4 we would bid the longer one, of course. However I don't think I am alone in playing this.
4C is forcing and shows about a 4 loser hand, as responder has shown some C length, (no M and no NT bid). As we played our 1C opeing as low as 2, we found it was important to play this style to show m suit support asap.

I meant opener's major suit bids...