[kenberg]

If I double I imagine Helene might pass. Not much in points but very good spades. We would do very well. But at least one of the advocates of doubling has said that he is not really penalty seeking but rather just "describing his hand". My thinking was, and to a large extent still is, that if partner could not bid spades or double over 1H then a penalty pass will not often be forthcoming. So I agree with the purpose of describing rather than penalty seeking, but I want to explore further.

mich-b seems to at least partly share my doubt about the double being descriptive, although I am not sure we agree on details beyond that. His formula would make a double in this sequence a take-out of hearts. Saying that the double describes my actual hand seems to make it a take-out of spades. It seems to me that on this auction I will sometimes have hearts, sometimes have spades, sometimes a good hand with something of a balance in my hearts and spades. I don't see how double can show all of these, so my thought was that when my major strength is highly unbalanced I would cue where my values are. Simple-minded maybe, but it doesn't sound completely crazy.

Where I now feel I was wrong is that the cue should be based on a hand where if partner can stop spades we probably have nine tricks. My hand does not qualify. This could often be on a running suit but I don't see why it has to be. My explanation to the opps was "heart stop and values" which seems right, but more values would be nice. Make my ten of diamonds into the queen, for example. Still a little iffy maybe but then turn a small club into a small diamond and voila, I think.


As a play hand in 3NT it is quite interesting. I got it wrong looking at all four hands, not that that proves anything. In particular, it appears that 3NT can be beaten if played from the N side. Can be beaten and would be beaten are different, of course.

[hanp]

Kenberg, I must disappoint you because I will never come close to writing stories as long as yours. It would make my head spin to think like that at the table. Two short points:

- Either the opponents have a spade fit or partner is quite weak. If I double and the opponents raise spades, I can double again and partner will have a good idea of my hand, both in terms of strength and shape.

- I cannot remember ever having bid or discussed 2H or 2S in this auction. I don't know exactly what kind of hand either should show, nor what any of partner's bids will mean exactly. What I do know is that partner won't be sure what I mean with it.

- Alerting is about agreements. Since you had not discussed this auction or had any reason to expect that partner knew how you intended your bid, you should not alert. I imagine that you meant your explanation as a courtesy to your oppponents, but it might also be seen as a lie and it could certainly be misleading.

[kenberg]

This issue of self-alerts has been discussed many times. If I open 2H and the opponents ask what sort of suit quality is promised, I think "no agreement" is a perfectly sensible answer except in the few online games where I have an agreement. With artificial bids I feel, and I think most feel, differently. I would not bid 2H unless I had some reasonable expectation that partner will have some idea of what I intend. Of course if we have not discussed it then this may not work out. I did not post an alert originally but one opponent or the other clicked on the bid, a request for the meaning came up, and I described what I intended.

I agree that for accuracy I should have said "Intended to show a heart stop and values". Usually I include "Intended" in such circumstances, this time I did not. Had I included "Intended" I don't see how it can be misleading if I say I am intending to show a heart stop and good values and I have a heart stop and good values.

[Jlall]

o hai.

2H shows a heart stopper and long running diamonds.
2S would show a spade stopper and long running diamonds.
2N would show stoppers + running diamonds.

This is because it is only 1 suiters that can cuebid or jump in NT.

Balanced 18-19s would typically bid 1N.

Minor suit oriented hands with extreme shape would bid some number of clubs. 3C would be very strong, 4C would be the nuts and probably at least 6-5 minors. 2C would be 5-5.

Other minor suit oriented hands woudl start with X. This includes 5-4 with significant extra values, or maybe a 4-4 18-19 balanced hand that didn't want to bid 1N.

This 20 count is not a balanced hand or a 1 suiter. It is a "minor suit oriented" hand with lots of extra values. So we start with double, though it's a bit flawed, and we go from there.

[kenberg]

Thanks, sounds right.