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good players never downgrade

#1 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 04:07

KQJ KQJ KQJ xxxx. MP. You play 14-16 NT. Would you?
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#2 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 04:22

"good players never downgrade, experts do"? :blink:

I wouldn't.
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#3 User is offline   Ant590 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 04:29

No way, unless I'm playing with GIB. I'd show it as the bottom of the next balanced range (17-19?).

If partner has enough to GF opposite an average 17-count, he's likely to bring enough to the party to make it worth my while not opening 1NT imho.
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#4 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 04:29

I would in 3rd or 4th. I wouldn't in 1st or 2nd.
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#5 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 04:30

I would.

Good players evaluate accurately and then bid aggressively based on that valuation. If that means downgrading then so be it. This is easily closer to 16 than 17. If a good player would open a 14-16 NT with an average 16 then they can do it with this too.
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#6 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 05:13

I would not. I have 6 tricks this is too much for a 14-16 opener.
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Roland

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More system is not the answer...
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#7 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 05:20

I'd treat it as a 17-count. I don't think it merits a two-point downgrade.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#8 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 05:30

Maybe in fourth seat, matchpoints, opp. red. Not otherwise.
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Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
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#9 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 05:33

I think I partially did it just so I could say I downgraded by 2 points at some point in my life heh.
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#10 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 07:37

I wouldn't downgrade this at all - 18 points! Every honor has a buddy, every jack is as good as a king. Those are big plusses. OK, no aces or spots with the honors are minuses, but overall I call that a wash, not a downgrade.
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#11 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 07:51

billw55, on Jan 8 2010, 08:37 AM, said:

I wouldn't downgrade this at all - 18 points! Every honor has a buddy, every jack is as good as a king. Those are big plusses. OK, no aces or spots with the honors are minuses, but overall I call that a wash, not a downgrade.

lol
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#12 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 07:54

Jlall, on Jan 8 2010, 08:51 AM, said:

lol

;)
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
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#13 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 07:59

Jlall, on Jan 8 2010, 05:07 AM, said:

KQJ KQJ KQJ xxxx. MP. You play 14-16 NT. Would you?

Definitely a 1♦ opener with a NT rebid ;)
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#14 User is offline   Old York 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 08:05

I would always downgrade by 1 point - but not 2, there are 3 negative features
4333 is bad, no aces is bad, all hcp in short suits is bad

I was amazed to see that this hand is valued as 15.4 on the K&R Evalualor, so maybe I should downgrade more often

http://www.jeffgolds...cgi-bin/knr.cgi

Tony
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#15 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 08:12

Feels pretty close to a double-downgrade, no strong feelings. Did you miss game? ;)
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#16 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 08:14

IMO, a "downgrade" is not really what it seems to be by the words used. Rather, what I vbiew as happening is that a range is used that is not equivalent to the Works HCP analysis. When you translate what your range really is into the HCP definition, sometimes it appears to be a downgrade or upgrade.

Hence,

If the range means that this hand fits in a HCP world as roughly a "14-16 HCP" hand, you are not really downgrading.

To be consistent, then, I would also "downgrade."
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#17 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 08:23

pooltuna, on Jan 8 2010, 01:59 PM, said:

Jlall, on Jan 8 2010, 05:07 AM, said:

KQJ KQJ KQJ xxxx. MP. You play 14-16 NT. Would you?

Definitely a 1♦ opener with a NT rebid ;)

You mean you are downgrading to 11-13? Bit excessive IMO
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#18 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 08:28

Not me.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#19 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 08:30

MickyB, on Jan 8 2010, 09:23 AM, said:

pooltuna, on Jan 8 2010, 01:59 PM, said:

Jlall, on Jan 8 2010, 05:07 AM, said:

KQJ KQJ KQJ xxxx. MP. You play 14-16 NT. Would you?

Definitely a 1♦ opener with a NT rebid ;)

You mean you are downgrading to 11-13? Bit excessive IMO

I did not say a one NT rebid I just said a NT rebid probably two
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

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#20 User is offline   mikegill 

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Posted 2010-January-08, 09:19

Count me in for downgrading if I have even the slightest bit of respect for my opponents' defense. Surely partner is going to put us in game with two aces (or even and A and a K!) opposite 17-19, and it sure seems like that will frequently have no play whatsoever.
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