[gwnn]

imps, nobody vulnerable

QJT
T8xx
KJxx
xx

opp

Kxx
KQ9xx
AQ
Axx

p-p-1♥-2♣
2♥-p-3NT-end

please ATB.

[helene_t]

100% to North and 90% to South.

[pooltuna]

helene_t, on Nov 24 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

100% to North and 90% to South.

seems equitable enough. North should have converted to 4♥ because he knows they have a 9 card fit. South should only bid 3NT if there is a reasonable possibility the partnership assets will exceed 27 HCP making 3NT a better place to play than an 8 card fit.

[aguahombre]

Simple souls --1-2-4. I am not genius enough to try for all the matchpoints in a team game. But if I had different clubs, I might bid 3NT. Hence, first mistake gets the bulk of the blame. that would be South. He gave North a choice, so he also gets 1/2 the blame for North not pulling --plus for the bid of 3NT.

[kenrexford]

South is a lunatic, IMO. If he really wants to, South has an easy call to include 3NT into the picture, IMO. He bids 3♣. That said, why F around?

[the hog]

pooltuna, on Nov 25 2009, 08:53 AM, said:

helene_t, on Nov 24 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

100% to North and 90% to South.

seems equitable enough. North should have converted to 4♥ because he knows they have a 9 card fit. South should only bid 3NT if there is a reasonable possibility the partnership assets will exceed 27 HCP making 3NT a better place to play than an 8 card fit.

Uh? I have seen many 9 card M suit fits play well in 3NT where 4M goes down.
27HCP? Really?

Personally, I would have bid 2NT with the sth hand, but 3NT is not a disaster. Pass with the NTh hand is not unreasonable. 3NT is not an unreasonable contract, and i should point out that on a C lead you may well lose 1C, 1S and 2H in 4H if the H do not play well. I don't see much blame to be laid anywhere.

[pooltuna]

The_Hog, on Nov 24 2009, 09:17 PM, said:

pooltuna, on Nov 25 2009, 08:53 AM, said:

helene_t, on Nov 24 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

100% to North and 90% to South.

seems equitable enough. North should have converted to 4♥ because he knows they have a 9 card fit. South should only bid 3NT if there is a reasonable possibility the partnership assets will exceed 27 HCP making 3NT a better place to play than an 8 card fit.

Uh? I have seen many 9 card M suit fits play well in 3NT where 4M goes down.
27HCP? Really?

Personally, I would have bid 2NT with the sth hand, but 3NT is not a disaster. Pass with the NTh hand is not unreasonable. 3NT is not an unreasonable contract, and i should point out that on a C lead you may well lose 1C, 1S and 2H in 4H if the H do not play well. I don't see much blame to be laid anywhere.

If you want guarantees see Lloyd's of London nevertheless you will have to produce more than "I've seen 4♥ go down with a 9 card fit while 3NT makes" and you left the key word out and that is "EXCEED" as in greater than and NOT equal to 27

[the hog]

"and you left the key word out and that is "EXCEED" as in greater than and NOT equal to 27" wtf?

[aguahombre]

The_Hog, on Nov 24 2009, 07:17 PM, said:

3NT is not an unreasonable contract, and i should point out that on a C lead you may well lose 1C, 1S and 2H in 4H if the H do not play well. I don't see much blame to be laid anywhere.

Really? 3NT goes down, 4H might go down. If we choose 0 % over something more than zero percent --our teammates might have a different opinion about whether there is blame involved.

[cherdanno]

South 100%, North 0%. Given South's hand, 3NT has no chance unless partner has a club stopper, or specifically ♥A and another trick (♠A or ♦Kxx). You bid 3NT because you think you can get 9 tricks before they can get 5, not because you have 18 hcp balanced.
North's hand does look notrumpy to me, if partner suggests it so strongly.

[the hog]

aguahombre, on Nov 25 2009, 09:43 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Nov 24 2009, 07:17 PM, said:

3NT is not an unreasonable contract, and i should point out that on a C lead you may well lose 1C, 1S and 2H in 4H if the H do not play well. I don't see much blame to be laid anywhere.

Really? 3NT goes down, 4H might go down. If we choose 0 % over something more than zero percent --our teammates might have a different opinion about whether there is blame involved.

Yes, if you get a C lead. Also place the honour cards a little differently in the Nth hand and 3NT may well make when 4H goes down. All I am saying is that the bidding is not as bad as some, particularly our fishy friend, suggest. My comment was more a reflection on the dogmatism of that poster. His post strongly suggested that all 5-4 fits should play in 4M, and that is an absurd proposition, of course. Also, where his(?) comment of 27HCP comes from and how this is relevant to this discussion is beyond me.

I admit that this probably would not have happened to me, as I play Bergen raises and therefore would not have bid 2H on the Nth hand.

[Jlall]

3N is horrible with Axx of clubs. As ken said, the way to investigate 3N here is to bid 3C.

Passing with 4 hearts and 2 small clubs is equally horrible.

I guess that makes it 50/50...

[aguahombre]

if you get a club lead? overcaller had all 8 of the remaining clubs, i guess

[Codo]

Why is passing 3 NT horrible? I would consider it as normal. I have a boring 3442 and my partner announced good stoppers in club.
No way to run to 4 heart.

[barmar]

100% to South. North trusts his partner, a fine policy (except maybe when you're partnered with this South). South should either have clubs double stopped, or should have enough control everywhere else that he expects 8 tricks outside clubs before giving up the lead.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

North knowes, that the partnership has a 9 card trump fit,
he should bid 4H.
I am neutral with regards to 3NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

gwnn, on Nov 24 2009, 07:56 PM, said:

imps, nobody vulnerable

QJT
T8xx
KJxx
xx

opp

Kxx
KQ9xx
AQ
Axx

p-p-1♥-2♣
2♥-p-3NT-end

please ATB.

close to 50-50

dislike 2h
dislike 3nt more
dislike pass of 3nt a bit

[Jlall]

barmar, on Nov 25 2009, 03:01 AM, said:

100% to South. North trusts his partner, a fine policy (except maybe when you're partnered with this South). South should either have clubs double stopped, or should have enough control everywhere else that he expects 8 tricks outside clubs before giving up the lead.

Why does partner having clubs double stopped mean you should play 3N?

[Codo]

Jlall, on Nov 25 2009, 05:50 PM, said:

barmar, on Nov 25 2009, 03:01 AM, said:

100% to South.  North trusts his partner, a fine policy (except maybe when you're partnered with this South).  South should either have clubs double stopped, or should have enough control everywhere else that he expects 8 tricks outside clubs before giving up the lead.

Why does partner having clubs double stopped mean you should play 3N?

Because you have a balanced hand with your share on quacks too?

[rd6789]

I would think if S bids 3NT this is showing a hand which is confident of taking 9 tricks after hearing partner's support of H but less confident of taking 10 - maybe Ax,xxx,AKxxxx,AK

I would pass as N trusting S to have this hand.